The Power of Determination in Entrepreneurship | Ana Estrougo

EP - Ana Estrougo

Matt Edmundson: [00:00:00] Well, hello and welcome to the eCommerce Podcast with me, your host, Matt Edmundson. Now this is a show all about helping you deliver eCommerce wow. Oh yes, it is. And to help us do just that, we've introduced a new segment to the show. Yes. Now, if you're a regular to the show, you will know that normally what happens is we have what we call an expert interview.

Now, that's where I go and get an expert in their field, could be email marketing, it could be SEO, it could be a whole bunch of things, get them to come to the show and we just grill them senselessly about their topic and area of expertise, which is always good fun and I always learn something and it's always great, as you may or may not be aware, [00:01:00] we have introduced some new segments to the show, depends on how often you listen to us, but we have introduced New Pillars.

One of which is where we talk to eCommerce founders. Ah, yes. And we talk to them about their story, uh, really about what they've learned in eCommerce, what they are learning, stuff that they've figured out along the way. way. So today is one of those shows. We have a founder on the show today. We are chatting with Anna Estugo.

Yes, we are from the Octopus Club, theoctopusclub. com. If you want to go check that out, uh, do so. We're going to be talking about Anna's story, what she's learned in eComm. All that good stuff. So don't go anywhere. And of course, if you're new to the show, a very, very warm welcome to you. Follow us on this fab journey of eCommerce as we learn all we can about this wonderful [00:02:00] topic. Uh, it's going to be great. It's going to be great. Now, depending on when you're listening to this, which I'm assuming is going to be in a few weeks time post recording, uh, I will have, I will either be at subsummit in the States or I will have come back from subsummit in the States.

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Still full of good stuff. So go check that out, ecommercepodcast. net and get all of this good stuff straight to your inbox. You don't have to do anything. It's a beautiful thing. Now let's talk about Anna. She is a passionate female founder on a mission to break the stigma that secondhand is [00:03:00] second best.

Love that. At the Octopus Club, they help parents reduce waste and be pocket wise while still providing for their kids with quality. And Anna is proud to say that she hasn't bought anything new for herself in four years. Oh, we're going to get into this as Anna only buys second hand. Anna, welcome to the show.

It's great to have you. Thank you for joining me today. How are we doing?

Ana Estrougo: Thank you so much, Matt, for having me. I'm very excited to share my journey and to share the bumps and the highs and the lows of what is building a startup and being a founder.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. The bumps and the scratches along the way. Now we were saying before you hit the record that you're Uh, you are a mum, uh, and your child is at the moment, uh, aptly engaged, but may not be for much longer and may come join us on the show, which would be quite interesting. Uh, well, quite fun actually is probably the right phrase to use.[00:04:00]

So what's it, tell us a bit about your story. So you're a, you're a young mum, uh, you're a female founder, you've got an online business. Tell us what the Octopus Club is all about. And why you started it.

Ana Estrougo: So the Octopus Club is a second hand marketplace for parents to buy, sell, and donate maternity, baby, and kid stuff. I started it because I found a problem. I was inundated with barely used words. baby gear that had cost a fortune. It was beautiful. Um, my baby didn't like it or, you know, didn't get a chance to use it.

And these things were still in fantastic condition. I knew that they could be used by other families. I bought from other marketplaces before, general ones. thought that the things arrived and it didn't seem like they were at the standard of the things I have. And I thought there must be other parents like me that care about the way [00:05:00] they take care about the things they have, that they want to pass it on to another family who is going to enjoy these things too.

And letting things go of your baby that grew is part nostalgic as well. So you want to feel good about letting it go. Let's go. You know, it's a sentimental thing. It's not just buying and selling a pack of cards, you know, so, um, I thought there must be another, other parents like me in the situation. And my, I was with my baby, he was six months old, I was looking very confused and, and my partner came in and I said, uh, there should be a marketplace just for baby and kid stuff.

So that everyone puts their things there and you buy from there for the next stage. And it's just like a community of people sharing these things and in a way making money to buy the next thing that they need. And, uh, and he said, well, there isn't one yet. And I said, not in the UK. And he said, well, you're going to do it.

And then I did. [00:06:00] Um,

Matt Edmundson: uh, revelation from your partner, or was it actually an instruction? I'm kind of confused right now.

Ana Estrougo: I think now he regrets a bit that he's had it because.

Matt Edmundson: Now this thing has sucked the life out of you. He regrets it slightly.

Ana Estrougo: I'm so passionate and this is all I want to talk about with him and he's like, again, I'm not your business partner, but, um, you know, it's, it's, it took over in a great way because, um, I know we have inspired so many families to start buying secondhand.

30 percent of users on the Octopus Club bought something secondhand for the first time on the Octopus Club. And this really shows that. We are reliable, they trust, and, and they take the leap of doing secondhand for the first time in their lives on Doctor Who's Club. For me, this is huge. If we stopped now, I am, you know, already very proud, [00:07:00] but we're not stopping.

We have so much to do, and I'm very excited about the future.

Matt Edmundson: No doubt. No doubt. And so, so the Octopus Club started, uh, did you say four years ago?

Ana Estrougo: Yes, our fourth birthday was last week.

Matt Edmundson: Well, happy birthday, happy fourth birthday. This is very good. So, um, I love, I love this how, you know, a lot of businesses, a lot of entrepreneurs, when they start something, a startup usually comes because they see a problem and they go, there has to be a solution.

I can't find a solution. Therefore I should, you know, this illogical step, which goes, well, if there's no solution, I should probably create said solution, uh, which makes absolutely no sense to most people, but to most entrepreneurs, it makes a lot, an awful lot of sense, doesn't it? Um, so you, You started this, uh, business four years ago, because you, you saw the, the need.

How did you go about that? Because here you are, right? Um, I, my, I mean, my kids are at a very different age, and I'm not going to lie, my eldest is 22, my [00:08:00] youngest is 17. I'm at a different phase of life. But I, I still remember The sleepless nights, the endless crying, the nappies, the emotional torment, you know, and that was just what my wife was getting from me, let alone the kids.

How on earth did you start and find the energy to start a business whilst being a young mum? That intrigues me.

Ana Estrougo: I'm very determined, Matt. So the, my baby was there, so I started thinking, he was six months, I started thinking about the idea, came up with the name, and the reason why the Octopus Club is called Octopus Club is because parents are always juggling. We have so many arms and things that we're moving around, trying to make things work.

And also about the first hand, second hand, third hand, passing things on. Um, and so, So I thought it must be the Octopus Club. Let's try to get the name. So I was able to get that name, register it, trademark, etc. Then I come from a graphic design and branding background. That's what I did pre baby [00:09:00] for over 10, 15 years.

And so my first idea was visualize it. How does it work? It needs to be easy for parents to navigate. Very user experience, like super simple. So that. Tired parents that aren't sleeping well can go and do their thing and not be, Oh, where's this? Where's that? So that was how it started very visually. I didn't do any market research.

I asked some friends what they thought and they said, yeah, we sometimes sell some stuff on Facebook marketplace or what's up. But, and I said, okay, it's needed. And I just went and did it. I know that if I had spent months or years. Researching and finding that, you know, like all that pre work that many people do.

I don't think I would have done it because I wasn't that momentum. I wasn't that. Drive and, and I just needed to get something out there and then start learning with the community, with what people need, with what people want, and building the product from feedback instead of [00:10:00] just building the perfect pro product and then, oh, let's try to now integrate this with the community.

It's like, no, let's put it out there and then we, we see what happens. Uh, so very community led from the beginning was really important. So yeah. So.

Matt Edmundson: Really powerful because I think, um, and again, this is just a really important point, especially if you're thinking of starting up. You don't need, as we like to say, all your ducks in a row, really. You, you sometimes, they used, they said to me when I was younger and it really stuck with me, it's easier to turn a car that's moving.

And I think it's a really good analogy that actually when you start business, when you start a business, sometimes just starting is, is the biggest power, isn't it? Really? You just. Get going, start the journey. I tend to find there are two types of people, using my car analogies, probably taking it slightly too far, but here we go.

There are two types of people. Uh, when you sit in a car and you say, right, we need to go to the other side of the country or the other side of the city or whatever it [00:11:00] is. There's a person that will get out the map and plot the routes to be the most efficient. And then there's a person who just gets in the car and starts driving and figures out there's somewhere over there.

We'll figure it out along the way. Right. And I think that the two approaches I see a lot in business, there's the people who want to have Everything, you know, thought through a whole bunch of information. Normally, if you're gonna go to the bank, they want you to have done that, that, you know, they want you to have a business plan.

Um, if you don't, if you're like me and maybe like Anna, then actually no. We're just gonna start and see where it takes us. Right. And, and, and adapt and move along the way. That seems to sound like your personality a little bit.

Ana Estrougo: Yeah, because I, you know, the striving for perfection, it would take so long to do something perfect. And I think we humans are also just, you know, going along and getting better and making mistakes and then doing it better next time. And it's like lapidating a diamond, you know, and it takes time and it's going to get there sometime.

And it's never going to be [00:12:00] perfect, but it needs to be useful. It needs to help people. It needs to be something. that people can adapt in their lives and it's not, you know, something that is hard for them to do. So that's what I wanted to do. So imagine me in lockdown in a flat without outside space, a baby, and on the carrier, and when he slept, because he only slept on me, Not on the cot.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Yep.

Ana Estrougo: was baby sleeping, I was on the computer. Designing and like, just cause like, the drive was so big and still is four years on. It's just, I, I, I wanted to help more people, you know, it was a really strong, strong thing, uh, at the right time, even though the world was going crazy.

Matt Edmundson: That's brilliant. And I love this because, I mean, you started off answering my question, Anna, by saying I'm a very determined person and, [00:13:00] and determination actually accounts for a lot, I think, in the business world, much more than education sometimes, you know, determination is a critical factor. From your point of view, where did that determination come from?

Is that something you've had since, if I was to ask your parents, you know, would your mum say, oh, you know, you were born? The most determined person on the planet, or is it something that you've had to develop in you over time?

Ana Estrougo: It's a good question. Uh, I didn't like school, I was bored, uh, But when I wanted something, I would go and get it. I don't, I think it might be, um, I was very adventurous and I came, I went, yeah, I left my house when I was 18 to go somewhere for a month in another country and I'm originally from Brazil and then when I was 15, I came to England, which is very far from Brazil in the time that weren't mobile phones and I didn't have a laptop and, uh, you know, it was [00:14:00] like quite crazy.

And I just came here and was like, wow, look at this place. Look at the. Possibilities. Look at all these people dressing differently and being their true selves. I was just like, so inspired that I got my first job in a guitar shop. And then, you know, it was just like, so, so many possibilities and things I could be and, um, Just loving that challenge of, of getting out of your comfort zone, and doing something even though it feels so weird, and then getting better at it, and then changing, and then reinventing yourself.

And this is something I think I've been doing a lot of, and that I've been taking it into my everyday life. Business as well, for example, Instagram reels and videos and things like that. I remember in the beginning, I used to be so out of my comfort zone looking at the camera and talking to the camera and explaining stuff.

It was so weird.

Matt Edmundson: Hmm.

Ana Estrougo: Uh, right now I'm much more confident and I enjoy [00:15:00] it because, you know, I'm just talking to other people and I found I'm much more comfortable, but I look at what I did before and it doesn't make me feel cringe. It makes me feel like, wow, how brave it was. And you put it out there. It's like, it doesn't have to be.

Perfect. You just have to do it and then you watch it and then you have a kind of new feedback yourself. Oh, that wasn't great. And I try it again and you just keep going and keep evolving and, you know, be your own critic and, but, you know, just. Go and try it out.

Matt Edmundson: Love that. Love the words you used. Which really stood out to me in that whole thing was when you look back, you thought about how brave you were just putting it out there. And I think that's such a good way to look at it because so many times people look back at stuff that they've done and they cringe or they, they don't want to put stuff out there 'cause they dunno if it feels right.

But you did it. You did it anyway in spite of it. And I love that when you look back on [00:16:00] it, it's. It's done in a healthy way. It's like, well, how brave of you to do that? Um, so the, so with the determination then has come bravery. And actually, these are qualities that they never talk about in business school, really.

And actually what I, you know, business more often than not, it's just about being brave, isn't it? It's about, you know, It's about making that decision, it's about putting yourself in an uncomfortable position, whether that's doing Instagram Reels for the first time, or a live, or a podcast, or a, you know, whatever it is.

Just being brave and taking the step and seeing where that takes you. Which I think is different to being foolish or foolhardy or being reckless. But be brave and I love you. I, I am loving the fact that was your go to word when you look back, uh, over your past catalogue. Um, uh, it's a sign of healthy, healthy self esteem, I would say, Anna.

Ana Estrougo: I'm glad, I'm glad.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, no, dear.

Ana Estrougo: it's easy [00:17:00] just to keep going and not looking back and just, I need more of this and I need to get there and I need to do this. But actually, like, look how far we've come, all of us, somehow, and, and how we developed. And, wow, it's just, like, amazing to, to keep going and pushing and trying different things and letting go of the ones that don't work and pursuing the ones that do, and just, Trying it out, having a positive outlook, I think, is really important.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. And that's powerful. That's powerful. So when it comes to, uh, if I, if I might just maybe one more question on this, Anna, you are. Okay. You have a young child still, you've been running the business for years. How do you balance being a mum, uh, and being an entrepreneur, you know, with the business? Do you ever experience, you know, what I've affectionately heard called mum guilt?

Um, do you, or do you feel like you've got a good balance? How do you manage family and work? I'm curious.

Ana Estrougo: [00:18:00] For the first two years, I didn't. I almost burned out a few times, especially because I was, for the first year, doing it all on my own, completely. And was able to grow to 2, 000 members without any help and just doing it on my own without funding. Um, so I was working all the time, even when I was not on the computer.

It was always taking over. And then when I did get funding, Pre revenue 150k crowdfunding when we hit one year I was able to get someone to help me with customer care and someone else to do a bit of social media but then the pressure of succeeding with the investment became loud now this is the and I just kept going I kept going kept going and didn't find time to Look out from outside and just kept executing, executing.

And a few times I thought I'm not going to make it. And, um, a couple of, uh, friends, founders who I spoke to told me, if you [00:19:00] don't reorganize how you're working, you are not going to make it and you might not make it again, and you might have a real hard time. So I think, um, Having people that you can trust to talk to and be able to have some honest conversations and tell people where you are is really important because it is a lonely journey in the beginning.

Um, and if you don't have a co founder, I didn't. Um, so it's really important to be able to talk to people because what these people told me, look, calm down, because if you break, there's no business. You need to keep going and you need to have that space. The third year, um, yeah. was still complicated, but then, uh, it's a roller coaster, isn't it, the startup?

We have huge highs, like, when Vogue contacted us, like, we want to put a piece of about Dr. Puss Club on Vogue, and then the, like, two weeks later, the BBC said, are you gonna be on the podcast with the CEO of Vinted and the CEO of [00:20:00] Gumtree? I'm like, oh my god, I'm writing the, this ride is amazing, but then their moment is like, oh my god, we need to, You know, reshuffle, we need to bootstrap, and I need to go back to doing almost everything on my own, and restructure, and it's like, it's a ride.

So, you need to be able to look at the bright side and enjoy when it's really high, and when it's really low, you need to just keep resilient and keep going. But I detoured there, let's go back to the Mom Guild. Um, In the beginning, I didn't feel mom guilt because I was very focused and I was tunnel vision, let's make this thing huge and let's go and let's give it all I got.

So, uh, I don't have mom, didn't have mom guilt then, but then, then later I started having a bit of mom guilt for what I hadn't done in the beginning with my son. Uh, even though I was very present with him, I was always thinking about the business. So I was there physically, but my mind was somewhere else.

Um, [00:21:00] and now. I think because it's been four years, I realized that it was not just a quick one, two year job that I did. This is, this is my life now. And if I'm not able to be present when I'm with him and be very focused and the like, not that it's the wrong word, but like, and I, you know, I have a lift to do, which is huge.

I'm not going to get it all done. So what are the things that are going to make things go, that are going to Click the switch that are going to make a difference. The rest, unfortunately, I'm not going to be able to reply to all the emails. I'm not going to be able to do all the content I want and all the changes I want.

Just like being able to filter and go with it. This is important. This can wait and Just keep going. You just have to keep going.

Matt Edmundson: That's really powerful. So if you, if I could ask, maybe looking back over the last four years, would you do it all the same way, or would you do it differently?

Ana Estrougo: I would do [00:22:00] some things differently, uh, but I think, uh, it's important to make some mistakes because if you don't make mistakes, you're not being adventurous. You're not being audacious, you know, you learn from them and then you tweak and you keep going. Um, but it's hard to tell because if I knew everything that I know now when it was then,

Matt Edmundson: Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm.

Ana Estrougo: I would have, I would probably be in a higher state now, like in terms of like growth and because I wouldn't make the small mistakes I did in the, in the learning of the process.

Matt Edmundson: So, and this is, I think this is a true statement actually from anyone in business. It's kind of like, well, yes, of course I'd do it differently. Why would I not? But at the same time, I don't regret any of. The stuff that I've gone through, cause it's usually in those moments that you learn the most either about yourself or your business, or they have the, you know, they help move the needle in significant ways because they force you to think outside the box.

You know, there's all [00:23:00] kinds of things, isn't there? Uh, you know, platitudes I can, you know, I'm just listening back in my head, what I've just said, move the needle, think outside the box, you know, all those kinds of phrases we like. But, um, if you then. We're talking maybe to someone today who was starting a similar thing, maybe not a marketplace, you know, for secondhand stuff for maternity and young babies, but what would be your key piece of advice to a younger Anna, maybe four years ago?

Ana Estrougo: Um, I think quickly learning how to, how to deal with issues and mistakes and having, um, instead of, because in the beginning when something happens that wasn't right, I would freak out and be like, Oh my God, what am I going to do? And like, you know, You know, lose control of it mentally of the situation instead of what I do now and [00:24:00] that I learned.

It's like, okay, it happened. What can we do? Can we do this and that? Would this be better? Is this quicker? Let's just sort it out and then we find a way to do it together. You know, more, um, for the future, you know, it's like, how do mistakes, um, hit you, how you let them hit you, um, and how you move forward and having that kind of way of dealing with problems that are, is more like creative.

Problem solving and getting it done and sorting it out and moving on and not feeling bad that it happened.

Matt Edmundson: Very good. Very good. Not feeling bad that it happened. I love that. A lot of wisdom here and I'm, I'm, I'm, it's, uh, it's fascinating listening to you talk. So what is, let's talk about eCommerce for a little minute, because obviously you've got this marketplace business, you're trying to grow it and run it as a business.

What do you think from an eCommerce point of view has had [00:25:00] the biggest impact, uh, on your company?

Ana Estrougo: Um, I think COVID was huge for what we started just, yeah, people were at

Matt Edmundson: Can't really

Ana Estrougo: lots of stuff.

Matt Edmundson: can't got a Facebook marketplace. I can learn how to do ads. I can't learn how to do pandemics, but no, I get what you're saying. Sorry, I'm being

Ana Estrougo: No, but, but, but let's see something else, but something else that you don't have control is like how the world is moving. And right now we know that re commerce, resale is growing 16 times faster than traditional retail, which

Matt Edmundson: Oh, wow. Mm mm-Hmm?

Ana Estrougo: uh, being, I, I, I think, uh, yeah, I think that was, it was the right place in the right time.

And, and it was just like this, not, I felt the need and not only me, other people too. And then it went like that. And now it's, it's [00:26:00] everywhere, you know, it's, it's becoming. The thing, and not only marketplaces, but also brands and retailers are starting to think about resale and some are doing it themselves already.

And last year, in 2023, uh, uh, 71 percent of consumers bought or sold something secondhand.

Matt Edmundson: mm

Ana Estrougo: that's huge. And 61 percent of these people Did it at least once a

Matt Edmundson: mm mm-Hmm.

Ana Estrougo: it's like it's the right time and that was a bit of luck

Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

Ana Estrougo: maybe a lot of luck, but I felt the need of that of it all So it was it wasn't like a guess it was just like I need this now.

I need to do it

Matt Edmundson: I think a look is a funny thing, isn't it? But um, and I would say I'd have a similar story in the sense I would say I was in the right place at the right time. But in that, it was the right place and it was the right time because I did the right thing. Uh, you know, and, and often that's missed out of the equation, isn't it?

It's naturally yes, well no, we, we had to do something [00:27:00] at that point in time and we just, we did it and it happened to be the right place in the right time and you can't underestimate that. So I'm guessing listening to you talk, Anna, you know, your competitors, for want of a better expression, are going to be, Vinted, eBay, Facebook Marketplace, I'm guessing, um, how have you stood out?

How have you made yourself different in that environment? Yep.

Ana Estrougo: so much bigger than us. It's not even comparable. Everyone knows we are a little baby.

Okay, so personal shopping service. If you are a parent and you need help with finding the best secondhand stuff for your kid, we'll just send you a list of links to shop on Octopus Club. They don't do that. They're not personable. They are more. Buy and sell and there's no kind of, um, human touch to it and we do amazing customer support.

Um, We also have the Octodrops, which is when we sell, um, overstock and open box returns from our partner brands, [00:28:00] uh, and this is a way that we are helping these brands and retailers to recoup revenue, recoup place in their warehouses, and to get these things used. By other people, which is for me is very important instead of knowing that things are there sitting doing nothing and we can get these items to our community for at least 30 percent off RRP, up to 50%.

Items are amazing. Um, what else do we do? We have over 20 partner brands that offer services and products that are either sustainable or to do with parenting. These are discounts that we give to our active users. to use with our favorite brands. Um, what else? We have a reseller scheme, which is something that none of these, uh, big guys do.

If you don't have time to sell your kids stuff, uh, we can connect you to one of our pro sellers and they do it all for you and you split the profit with them. So it's a win win. We get great supply. We give [00:29:00] People that want to have a bit of work and a bit of income the opportunity to do so and we are helping out parents that don't have time to list the items and get it sold etc themselves.

Matt Edmundson: Fantastic.

Ana Estrougo: the other thing is that the Octopus Club is Me, and I am on the face of the brand, and I'm a parent, just like the people that are using it. It's a brand with a face, and we, me and my team, who are, by the way, all female, we really care about what we're doing, and we are super mission led. We, we all want to make the future, if possible, a better place for our kids.

Because they're gonna be here longer than us, so we must do what is right for them.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, very powerful. Very good. It's interesting. I mean, we talk a lot, um, internet and with clients, and I would have said it a few times on the podcast as well, uh, about this concept of digital David's, you know, you've heard the story of David and Goliath, where David [00:30:00] is the small shepherd boy taking on the big giant of Goliath.

And, um, it's a well known book now by, it's obviously a well known ancient story, but Malcolm Gladwell wrote a book called David and Goliath, which if you've not read it. You should read because it is right up your street. Um, talking about the underdog and how actually, uh, as the underdog, you've got more superpowers than you actually probably already know.

And, um, great book, great read, but we talk about it in the context of Digital Davids. We talk about, you know, how many of us run an eCom sites where our competition is Amazon, you know, for you it's eBay. And it's like, how do the smaller guys take on the big guys and win? How do we make our businesses successful?

It's not like I'm. Please don't miss hear me, Mr Bezos. Um, but I, I, I need my business to work independent of decisions that Amazon make. Um, and I, I'm really intrigued by that, you know, and here you are in probably one of the most, [00:31:00] I would say, tightly controlled spaces because it's always been eBay, recently Facebook Marketplace, and I suppose more recently I've heard conversations about Vinted, you know, my wife buys and sells on Vinted now, um, rather than eBay.

And so obviously Vinted. eBay and Facebook aren't doing something and people like you are sort of starting to pop up and create these amazing places to do extraordinary things and I applaud you for that. I think that's really great and I think it's great that you're willing to take on the glice and go, no, we can do this so much better just by being me and by, you know, being personable and about thinking, you know, what actually people really want from these things.

I think that in itself is quite a remarkable achievement, you know. Yeah,

Ana Estrougo: For us, it's really important to listen to what the community needs and, uh, to do things for them because they're the one u the ones using it and to keep evolving and, uh, I think some of the big [00:32:00] guys stayed. In their place too comfortably. And, and they didn't evolve. And then of course, vintage came and they are making it everything very easy for, for people to buy and sell.

And so many people started using secondhand buy and selling as their norm because of vintage. And I think if they. Thought about eBay and Facebook Marketplace, like, oh, they are the best, the unachievable, we're never going to get there. They wouldn't have started and they went for it anyway. So I'm not afraid of, of the big guys.

And in a way, I think we're all working towards the greater good. Like we all want sustainability and secondhand buy and selling to be. Everyone's way of doing it, because then it's going to be better for the planet, and you know, we're all here, we're all using the planet, so let's just keep doing it for good, and that's what I think.

Matt Edmundson: One of the things that you have on your website, which intrigued me, um, again, this is a point of [00:33:00] differentiation. Uh, I'd not really seen it before. You had, you have the buy button, the sell button and a donate button. And actually when I scrolled down, I mean, I, I'm obviously not your target market. You know, I'm not looking for sucks my 22 year old son on your site, but, um, there were people who had donated stuff, which you could get for free.

Right. And, and that intrigued me.

Ana Estrougo: Yeah, so, um, when I spoke to some people in the beginning, I really wanted to put the donate button there, because I thought, awesome stuff, I just want them to go, because, you know, just use it, enjoy. And some people that are a bit, some things that are a bit higher value, I want to get some money from it. then, um, I heard, oh no, don't do it, your site is going to become a donate website and you're not going to be able to monetize and then you're not going to have a business. And I said, you know what, I'm going to put it there. If it starts becoming more than the buy and sell, I'll revise. It's just like what I said in the beginning, it's like, try things out and learn and see what happens.

The donate is Maybe 0. 5 [00:34:00] percent of the transactions. People want to make some money out of the transaction, even if it's small, because they want to have money to buy the next thing, because the babies don't stop growing, as you know, you have big babies in your house. It's like they always need the next thing.

And so you need to, people are really Pocket wise, I'm conscious about, you know, their financial, what to do with the money. So, they make a bit of money and they spend a bit of money. It's almost like having an octal wallet. So, you make money and you spend. And then, some people donate. And I still donate some things.

And sometimes you say, oh, I'm selling this, but you can select some other things as a donation. And I'll put it all in the same parcel. It's like It works, so I'm keeping it there, and I think it's a really nice point, because some people don't need the money, and then they just donate. So, last week, or a week, or two weeks ago, a new member joined, they listed eight items, including one, which is an LV breast pump, one of the [00:35:00] top breast pumps ever.

It's worth almost 300 pounds, new, they put it for free. People, our members are very connected to me, they can reach me easily, and they said Anna, there's something wrong, someone is giving away an LV, and I said wow, and I looked at her listings, so I asked our customer care superstar, Rebecca, to say can you get in touch, just to make sure they know what they're doing, and they said oh yes, we are donating, we want to donate all our things, so She was able to donate everything, almost everything to the same person and she had the chat with them on the website and they had a conversation and it was like, yeah, take it.

So, I mean, this is the power of our community as well. It's not just for profit. There's really nice people there that Also want to make this very generous gift of giving.

Matt Edmundson: yeah, fantastic, and I love the fact you've enabled that. What would be, um, to use another overused statement, uh, Anna, thinking about [00:36:00] your business now between, you know, between where you are and where you want to be, say, in 12 months time, what do you think will make the biggest difference, you know, what, if there was one eCommerce skill you could learn, what would it be, uh, because it's going to make the biggest difference on your business?

Ha

Ana Estrougo: Well, I want everything to go faster. Faster, faster, faster, faster, faster! Oh my God, just faster! Anyway, um, there's two things that can really help us over the edge in a good way. One of them is our B2B2C partnerships, where is where we do the overstock and the open box returns. So getting more partners to join.

We have one retailer that I cannot say who it is, but if I did, they would be like, wow, okay, and we need more. We want more. We are ready to take more. And if we're able to [00:37:00] do that, we are going to have much a bigger offering. And then more people are going to join because they want to be part of these up to drops, which usually sell out in a couple of hours.

It's a super success. I'm finding it really hard to. Get brands that are not used to this possibility of selling the returns through a marketplace and instead they prefer to keep it there for the foreseeable to say, okay, let's try it out. Even though in the US and in Canada, there's two brands in each country that are already doing it very successfully and that's all they do is returns and open and overstock. So just getting people here in the UK, brands and retailers here to. Say, okay, let's do it. Let's try it out. Then they're going to recoup revenue and recoup space and just be much more sustainable. So that's one thing. The other thing is investment and getting investors that really understand what we're doing, that [00:38:00] can see that the retail, the resale is growing much faster, that this is the future, that it's already happening.

It's not just the future. It's the present already and that's what we're doing. To see how there's been this huge behavioral shift, uh, from people that want to have a more pocket wise and a more sustainable way of shopping. Uh, to get them to say, okay, let's go. Because we are small, comparing to the big guys, uh, and we need to grow our user base, because marketplaces are all about volume. Well, we need people to say, okay, let's go. Yes, let's do it. Like, and it's hard because they want to see revenue and they want to see, um, and we take a small take rates, but we take a much bigger take rate on the B2B2C and we have five new revenue streams that we're ready to launch, but we need investments to develop these things.

It's a bit like a chicken and egg, you know, you see the investment says, Oh, you're too small and you need to hit that. I said, yeah, but to hit that, I need [00:39:00] money. to do marketing so that I can hit that. Otherwise, I need to just keep trying to grow slow and organically and it takes time. So it's those two things that I think would really help it shift.

Matt Edmundson: How did you, you mentioned earlier on that you secured 150, 000 in funding, uh, round one funding. Um, how did you do that?

Ana Estrougo: I just like the other stuff. I just went for it. I just said, okay, let's do this. Um, so how did it happen? It was pre revenue. So we were not making any money. We were actually spending money to run the business because we had Uh, Stripe fees and developers doing some stuff on the website. Uh, but yeah, I think the problem is so obvious, you know, that parents are full of stuff that they don't need anymore.

Uh, there are other parents that need stuff and maybe. [00:40:00] Because of their consciousness, they don't want to buy new because they are choosing to be sustainable or because they need to have something good, but not as expensive. So it's like, and waste, there's like 183 million pieces of clothing of kids wear end up in landfill each year in the UK, just in the UK.

And 80%, 80 percent of toys globally. End up in landfill incinerators at the ocean. The problem is huge. You have stuff in your house that you don't need anymore. You need stuff for the new stage and like it's like it's the problem. So I think that was one of the reasons why we, we got investment and our product looks good.

I'm a graphic designer. I did a nice job.

Matt Edmundson: I love that. Check it out. The Octopus

Ana Estrougo: Check it out. And, and, you know, it's a very honest place you, you know, yeah, and I think people just, [00:41:00] the investors that, that joined in the beginning saw it as a huge opportunity and is a huge business opportunity because all the families. Have this problem all of them if they can't afford stuff or if they can't because The problem is of having the stuff and not having to what to do with it or having to buy the stuff and not having enough money and or of because wanting to be sustainable and wanting to have other choices.

It's like one or the other way it will fit a family's needs. So that's how we did it. I think.

Matt Edmundson: So, um, going faster obviously is important. Uh, and getting funding is obviously important. What's one thing that you're actively trying to learn in eCommerce at the moment? What's the skill that you're maybe trying to develop? If there is one, if there isn't, then that's fine. I'm just curious to know if you're actively trying to develop any kind of knowledge or skill in eCommerce right now.

Ana Estrougo: So right now, [00:42:00] um, our email marketing and our Instagram content is very gen, generic, general. So we are a business that can cater for pregnancy up to 12 years old. But the way we are communicating is general because we have not been able to invest in product features that enable us to target markets specifically to people at a certain stage of their

Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

Ana Estrougo: Uh, so that is really tough because it's probably slowing sales because if you get an email newsletter that has stuff for parenting, but also for 10 year old kids, it's a bit like, Oh, you might get one or two things that are interesting for that customer. So that's one thing that we would love to develop soon so that we can do much more relevant content to our, to our members.

Matt Edmundson: And what do you, what email platform do you use?

Ana Estrougo: We use MailChimp.

Matt Edmundson: Uh, so people are listening because they're always intrigued by what other people's, the other software people use. So [00:43:00] use MailChimp. Have you always used MailChimp? And what's your, the platform you use to the marketplace? Is that proprietary software? Is that stuff you've developed or is that, uh, off the shelf?

Ana Estrougo: So we use ShareTribe, which is a marketplace, uh, platform for marketplaces and they are really incredible. You can put a marketplace up in a few days as a test and, uh, it's very handy for starting up. And that's another thing that really helped us to launch quickly because we, uh, You could play around, do some stuff, and I got some developers in to make it look exactly how I wanted, because that was really important.

But if you just want to try and, you know, you're not so focused on how it looks like, you know, you can just launch in three days or something. Like, it's really handy, really good for marketplaces.

Matt Edmundson: Do you find, uh, Anna, being a graphic designer [00:44:00] is both a blessing and a curse? Uh, that actually you want stuff to look really good, but sometimes you just need to let it go and go, Mmm,

Ana Estrougo: I used to be very obsessed about detail, uh, because I worked at really good studios in London and it was like, you need to be perfect, okay, perfect, otherwise you cannot go. But with a startup and then when I started this journey of the Octopus Club, I had to be a bit more flexible because like we said, if you're just trying to be perfect all the time, it doesn't get out.

And I learned how to let things go much more and it's so much, it's so refreshing not to be so fast. It's like, okay, what else? I once I put like, imagine typeface is something like, oh my God, it needs to be perfect. And once Once or twice on social media, I put the wrong typeface on a post and I thought, Oh my word, it's already there, people are liking the post, I'm not going to take [00:45:00] it out.

And yeah, it looks a bit similar. I would never be able to be like this when I was working in studios that are very well respected. But, you know, you know what I think? If people are really perfect and everything is too perfect, you're not approachable, you're not real, you're not human. People don't want that anymore.

People want to feel, they want to feel connected. And that means being a bit imperfect, honest, raw, and just being there, you know,

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, I totally agree. I think actually, in some respects, it's some of the best content, you know, so you, you put a post out and you go, oh, it's the wrong typeface. Actually, to then follow that up with some stories going, you know what guys, I set out a post with the wrong typeface, you wouldn't have noticed, but I have a graphic design background and I saw it and I started to twitch.

And I think just stories like that, what makes you approachable, what makes you real and raw and people go, aha. And so next time when you do something, people [00:46:00] might go, is this the right typeface? And it becomes a bit of an in joke and then the community grows around that. And I think those kinds of things are wonderful.

They're these sort of happy accidents that you can really build off of. Um, but yeah, I, it, uh, intriguing. So what does the future look like, Anna? What's the plan? What's the dream? You want investment. You want things to go faster. Fast forward five years. Where is the Octopus Club?

Ana Estrougo: Oh, wow. Oh, in five years we'll be in other countries already,

Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

Ana Estrougo: sure. Yeah. Um. But I really want, I want even more for the community to be engaged with the product and really helping us. This is so important to me like that they because it's a club right and and they need to shape it I want them involved I want these pro sellers having their own little market stalls all over the country with Octopus Club Branding and [00:47:00] them feeling like they are part of it like Empowering the community to have a piece of us and to be part of it, really owning it. I want it to be, I want Octopus Club to be for the people and with the people and be much bigger than just a sell and buy marketplace.

Matt Edmundson: Fantastic. Well, we look forward to seeing where it's going to be in five years time. Anna, before we go, we do do this thing where I ask guests on the show for a question for me. Now I'm, this is the question for Matt section where you're going to ask me a question, but I'm not going to answer it now. No, no, no.

Uh, I'm going to answer it on my social media, talking about social media. So Anna's going to ask me a question. If you want to dear listener, hear the answer to said question, you're gonna have to follow me on social media. Uh, so. Anna, go, what is your question?

Ana Estrougo: My question is, [00:48:00] oh dear, I wasn't very prepared and I was so talking about everything. You probably have, you probably have to cut this bit where I'm thinking.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, no, we won't.

Ana Estrougo: Where do you see eCommerce in the next five years?

Matt Edmundson: Where do I see eCommerce going in the next five years? Okay, that's a very good question. I will answer that of course on social media. If you want to know my answer, uh, come check it out. Just follow me, Matt Edmundson. On the usual channels on Instagram or LinkedIn. Uh, and I will post in fact, on Twitter as well.

I should probably stop posting the answer on Twitter actually. Uh, but yes, you can find out the answers there. Anna, listen, uh, it's been great talking to you. Genuinely love the conversation. If people want to find out more about you, if they want to reach out, connect with you, maybe they want to help with what's going on.

Maybe they want to [00:49:00] invest. Maybe they want to help you, you know, with Instagram or whatever. What's the best way to do that?

Ana Estrougo: On Instagram, you can go to at the Octopus Club. On LinkedIn, it's Anna Rachel Estrugo, and you'll put that down somewhere, right?

Matt Edmundson: It'll be in the show

Ana Estrougo: Anna with one N. Yeah. Um, where else? The website, go check it out, send us a message through there, buy and sell, theoctopusclub. com.

Matt Edmundson: www. theoctopusclub. com. Do check that out. And as Anna said, we will of course link to all her information in the show notes, which if you're subscribed to the newsletter will be coming to your inbox. If you're not subscribed to the newsletter, they won't be. So subscribe to the newsletter and you'll get them either way.

You'll find them on the website, ecommercepodcast. net. Now Anna, listen, it has been an absolute treat to chat to you today. Thank you so much for joining us. And I wish you all the best, uh, with the Octopus Club. It's [00:50:00] a brilliant thing. Do go check it out, theoctopusclub. com. Uh, but Anna, thank you.

Ana Estrougo: Thank you so much, Matt, and yes, to the future of eCommerce.

Matt Edmundson: Absolutely. Uh, what a great conversation. Huge thanks again to Anna for joining me today. Also be sure to follow the eCommerce Podcast, wherever you get your podcasts from, because of course we have more great conversations lined up and I don't want you to miss any of them. And in case no one has told you yet today, Let me be the first.

You are awesome. Yes, you are. Created awesome. It's just a burden you have to bear. Anna's got to bear it. I've got to bear it. You've got to bear it as well. Now, the eCommerce Podcast is produced by Podjunction. You can find our entire archive of episodes on your favorite podcast app. The team that makes this show possible is Sadaf Beynon and Tanya Hutzlack, amazing people.

Our theme song was written by Josh Edmundson. And as I mentioned, If you would like to read the transcript or show notes, head over to the podcast, to the podcast, to the [00:51:00] website, eCommercePodcast. net. That's eCommercePodcast. net. But that's it from me. That's it from Anna. Thank you so much for joining us.

Have a fantastic week wherever you are in the world. I'll see you next time. Bye for now.