Fight Burnout and Pursue Your Passion | Nick Radcliffe

Nick Radcliffe | Fight Burnout and Pursue Your Passion

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Matt Edmundson: Welcome to the eCommerce Podcast with me, your host, Matt Edmundson. Now, this is a show all about helping you deliver eCommerce well. And to do that, we have a fairly new segment on the eCommerce Podcast. Called the Founders Segment. Yes, this is where I get to talk to founders of eCommerce businesses. Guys and gals like you and me in the trenches, building and growing their own online businesses.

We're talking to founders more and more, getting them on the show, which is great. Ordinarily, we talk to experts in different sectors, but we think it's great just to get you guys on the show to share your story as well. So if you would like to be featured as a founder, Get in touch with us via the website, eCommercePodcast.

net, we'd love to have you on the show. And today we are talking to Nick. Radcliffe, who's actually just down the road, uh, it appears, although we are recording this online. Uh, [00:01:00] but Nick is from the Christian Poster Company, and we're going to be talking about his journey from being a doctor into the world of eCommerce.

Oh yes, but before we get into that, a warm welcome to anybody who is new to the show. It's great to have you here, uh, on joining us on the eCommerce Podcast. Thanks for joining us. Uh, like I said, my name's Matt, I've been around since 2002 doing eCommerce, I mean I've been around slightly longer than that, but doing eCommerce since 2002.

And like you, I run my own eCommerce business, over the years I have set up, started, failed at and succeeded at some as well. Uh, around 21 online businesses I think at the last count, I don't know, some horrendous amount. Love eCommerce, love what it does for us, uh, as entrepreneurs. And so it's a great privilege and a great honour to get to do the eCommerce Podcast.

Like I say, ordinarily we talk tux. Owners, uh, to talk to experts. Sorry, but today we're talking to an owner. Yes, we are. So if you're new, a warm welcome to you. [00:02:00] And of course, if you've been with us a while, you'll be going, Matt, this is all a bit new. And it is, you're right. It's totally new and I'm loving it.

Let us know what you think. Uh, reach out and connect with me on the social media channels, all the usual stuff. Uh, you'll find me on Instagram. You'll find me on LinkedIn. Come and find me, Matt Edmundson. I am in there and would love to hear from you. Now, Nick started the Christian Poster Company as a creative escape in 2020, encouraged by steady growth and feeling burnout after 24 years as a medical doctor, Nick took the leap, the dreaded leap.

We've all taken it. Uh, he took it in April, 2024, so at the time I'm recording, just a few short months ago, and he took the leap to pursue his business full time and hasn't looked back since. Maybe there's not been the time to. Anyway, what began as a side gig has now become his main passion. And apparently, Nick, you're loving every minute.

A warm welcome to you. Warm welcome to the show. [00:03:00] Great to have you on. How are you doing today, my friend?

Nick Radcliffe: Thanks, Matt. Thanks for having me. As you know, I've been working my way through all your Back episodes of your podcast. So it's a pleasure to be on.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, this is this is interesting, actually, because you messaged me, I think it was on Instagram, telling me about, you know, your company, what you do, and the fact that you'd found the podcast, and we're working your way through all the back episodes.

And I think I just sent a message back saying, I'm just really sorry.

Some of those early episodes, man.

Nick Radcliffe: One thing I'm finding in having started my own business is I don't know many people doing. Same thing. So just even just listening, even if it's one way to people talking about the world I'm suddenly finding myself in, it's been like gold dust. Yeah,

Matt Edmundson: that's great. Well, tell us about, I mean, I guess the clue's in the title, The Christian Poster Company.

But tell us a little bit about what you do.

Nick Radcliffe: Yeah, So, um, as I mentioned in the bio, this was, um, [00:04:00] started as just me enjoying doing some digital design, uh, in my downtime. And, um, what I do now is, pretty much the same as what I started back then, which is designing and now selling posters mostly, as you say, the clues in the name, but also now some other bits of stationery like bookmarks, cards, that sort of thing.

And they all are with usually Bible verses and sometimes hymns. And it's all in, I would describe it as a sort of modern type of typographical Style. Um, yeah, and it seems to have hit the spot. As I say, it's been growing pretty well.

Matt Edmundson: Well, you know, the litmus test, Nick, was, um, I showed some of what you do to my daughter, who is a 17 year old graphic design student.

who, who knows everything, uh, because a 17 year old, as they [00:05:00] do. Uh, no, she's, I, I, I, I jest slightly. My daughter is wonderful. Um, and actually very talented graphic designer. We've actually, in fact, the t shirt I'm wearing is, is my daughter's design created also. And so, Talented graphic designer and I showed her some of the stuff that you've done and she was like, she really likes it.

There's some of the stuff actually, some of the bookmarks and postcards she's taken, uh, which I think is, is, is, well, it's a testament to, to what you've done. So if you can, if you can get through to my 17 year old, uh, with graphic design, that's amazing. Yeah, absolutely. She loved it. So I know I've really, I've had a good look.

It is very modern typography. Some of the stuff you've done is really great. Um, And so, I'm intrigued. You've got this sort of passion project, as I think is how we described it in the bio. Did you, have you done any formal graphic designers? Did you just start doing Adobe Illustrator because you fancied doing it one day?

I mean, how did that come about?

Nick Radcliffe: I certainly haven't got any training, [00:06:00] um, apart from teaching myself. And, um, yeah, I think it started, it feels a long time ago now, but I was, um, designing some leaflets for the practice I was working at. Medical practice. So that probably got me started on Adobe Illustrator.

I thought, Oh, this is quite fun. And it sort of evolved from that and became a hobby. Yeah. And just have taught myself and mostly teaching myself from YouTube videos. Usually when you have something in mind and then you think there must be a way of doing that and find out there is. Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

So that, which is great. I mean, I I'm kind of self taught on illustrating myself. Um, same. I didn't work for medical practice. I mean, I work in the web industry. I suppose I've got a slightly more reason to do it, but yeah, I taught Illustrator myself. Stop using Illustrator. I'm not going to lie. If Adobe is listening, I'm not a fan of their payment system and how they,

how

Matt Edmundson: they do it and, and are just really not happy with Adobe on so [00:07:00] many levels, but that's, that's a personal thing.

You know, I'm

Nick Radcliffe: not the only one, but yeah. So have you found an alternative where you just,

Matt Edmundson: yeah, I use Affinity.

Nick Radcliffe: Affinity,

Matt Edmundson: Affinity Designer. I don't think, I think there are certain things that Affinity doesn't do that Illustrator does. But, I use, um, I use it predominantly, Nick, uh, not to design graphic stuff, although I do have done occasional stuff, because I don't think I'm a particularly great graphic designer.

The, um, The thing I've used it most for is designing woodwork projects because I am a bit of a, I, you see, you learn Illustrator. I, I, I went and got into wood stuff because I was kind of like, you know, everything digital is on the screen and I just quite fancied being able to touch things and, you know, just work with my hands.

And so I started doing wood stuff and, um, You know, I use Affinity Designer to help me design those projects and actually it's for that it's, it's, it's fantastic and worth every penny. Yeah. Very [00:08:00] much so. Yeah.

Nick Radcliffe: Well, I do have a bit of sort of FOMO with when people talk about Affinity because, and it's cheaper as well, but I just can't face learning a new tool.

So I'm just sticking with it.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. No, fair enough. Uh, I think it's fair enough. I think all power to you, my friend. And I think if they, if Adobe ever called me up and apologised. Um, I would, I would maybe go on back using their software, but the fact that they're not going to do that and they don't care, uh, is just another story, but you know, it is what it is.

It's the big guy, isn't it? So your eCommerce journey, then you, you kind of, you started this as a passion project, um, it said, and then what was the day I read out? 2020, 2020. So lockdown. Uh, was that when you started to turn it into a business?

Nick Radcliffe: Yeah, it was about March 2020, but, um, in my head, I don't really relate it to lockdown at all.

It just feels coincidental for me. I, I mean, my, my job, [00:09:00] well, if anything, it got busier during lockdown. Yeah, so it didn't feel like I was sort of, what should I do with my time and I'll pick up a hobby. But anyway. For whatever reason, it was around that time and I started, um, yeah, I think I just put a few designs on Facebook and people seemed to like that and thought I'll try on Etsy and that's where it started.

I was, I was exclusive on Etsy for, That's, yeah, two and a half, three years, but I now have, I'm still on Etsy, but now I've got my, um, store that's on Shopify, and I'm, that's so much better for me in terms of profit margins and flexibility.

Matt Edmundson: And do you find that, um, most of your sales still come through Etsy or are they, is it coming more through your website now?

Nick Radcliffe: No, I would say, um, two thirds, online sales, about two thirds shop on my website and about a [00:10:00] third Etsy.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, that's interesting, that's interesting, you've sort of managed to make that swing, because not a lot of people do actually, and they'll start out on Etsy and it's, because obviously they've got the captive market, it's hard to make that swing to get them on their own website.

Nick Radcliffe: Yeah, I think it's helped that I, um, At the point I changed over to, well, not changed over, but developed my own website on the Shopify platform. I already had quite a big, um, sort of audience and, um, loyal customers and, you know, it's not a huge audience on, on Instagram, but it's pretty well engaged. And also at that time I started to, um, I'm still selling mainly online, but I do some events as well.

So you see people in person. So again, that's, um, you know, that fosters a. a more engaged community. So I think that's helped a lot in terms of driving traffic.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Oh, well, let's dig into this then because I'm intrigued. Um, there's a couple of things you've mentioned. Let's start with Instagram. [00:11:00] Um, and then at some point I'll just make a note here.

We'll get to events, but, um, You, you've intentionally built up an Instagram following over the, over the years. Is that how, was that your main sales outlet?

Nick Radcliffe: Uh, yes. Um, again, it wasn't that there was that much forward planning that went into it. It just is a good platform to, you know, obviously a good visual platform in terms of sharing my designs, which are obviously visual.

Um, and, um, yeah, and again, it just sort of grew, um, on that platform. So that's my primary social media presence. Um, yeah. And when did you start? I, I am on Facebook. I'm on Facebook and Twitter as well, but yeah, reasonable engagement on Facebook. But I would say it's mainly Instagram. Mainly Instagram.

Matt Edmundson: When did you start on Instagram?

Nick Radcliffe: Oh, from the outset of when I started doing this. So it would've been pretty much when I started my Etsy store.

Matt Edmundson: Right. And so I'm [00:12:00] kind of curious in. When you started your Etsy store, did you think at the time, I've got to do Instagram as well, or I've got to do some kind of social media to get people engaged to Etsy?

Was it intentional, or was it more of a, I'm just going to start an Instagram thing because I just want to put my design work out there.

Nick Radcliffe: Yeah, it was more the latter. Um, so, um, but, but it's, and it's, as time's moved on, I've seen the value of it being, um, you know, helpful in marketing because, um, I guess to contrast with, uh, email marketing, which I sort of feel I still am a long way from utilising, but, um, I get a bit demotivated doing that because it feels like everything that people speak about.

as being a positive for email marketing I sort of get already with Instagram so if I got a new product and I'm launching it I'll put it on Instagram or even put a teaser on a day or two before [00:13:00] and um it's it's doing that that I then see you know the sales increase and again my sort of my loyal followers will engage with that.

Yeah, so that's working well for me. So whereas that I don't my little sort of forays into email I don't seem to sort of get those results. So that's interesting.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, so well I mean we can get on to that if you like, but I the it's interesting how How that's worked for you and how that is working because obviously you're you're getting good organic outreach on Instagram.

If you're putting stuff on there and people are responding, which is not always the case, to be fair with, um, uh, with in, uh, you know, organic Instagram outreach. So how often do you post on Instagram?

Nick Radcliffe: I would say it's probably once every once every two or three days.

Matt Edmundson: Okay.

Nick Radcliffe: [00:14:00] Um, and it's not, no particular thinking behind that.

It's just, it feels like doing it more often. Um, I don't want to be spamming people. Yeah. And that just feels about right. And do, and also do it more often. I don't necessarily have as many ideas, enough ideas to do it more frequently. Yeah. It's only two or three days. And that's using a mixture of, um, just the grid and then reels, probably a two to one ratio I'd say of those.

Matt Edmundson: Two, so two on the grid, one on the reels.

Nick Radcliffe: Yeah, I would say.

Matt Edmundson: This is interesting. So, um, have you come across, I came across this chap yesterday, the other day, um, I'll let me pull him up on my Instagram now. Uh, his name was totally, that's me, Peter. Oh, come on, brain. Um, what[00:15:00]

was his,

Alan Peters,

Matt Edmundson: Alan Peters. That's the, well done, that well done. So I came across Alan Peters the other day. Um, on Instagram and, uh, he reminds me, he reminded me of you in the sense that, um, you know, he, he, what he does with his design work on Instagram is really quite fascinating. And one of the things he talked about actually, cause I, I started to follow him as well on Instagram.

One of the things that he said was that, um, doing reels on Instagram has totally He's got over half a million followers now. I mean, and I think he's got like a hundred thousand followers in the last few days. He has totally gone crazy, this guy. Alan Pease, in terms of his following. And he What he does with his reels, which I think is quite fascinating, is he takes an existing logo And in effect starts the reel by saying, let's fix this, [00:16:00] fix this logo, which instantly gets everybody hooked into what's going on.

I think it's genius. And it's sort of seven or eight seconds of him talking about fixing somebody's logo. And he's amassed sort of half a million followers, and I think it's transformed his business, um, really. And you obviously follow him, because you knew who he was.

Nick Radcliffe: Oh yeah, yeah, I have followed him for a long time.

Yeah, he's, I mean, those, particularly those reels you're describing, I think that's relatively, I mean, he's already had a big following, but he seems to have really sort of spiked in the last few years. Doing those fields you're describing and they're just very, very well executed, um, and he's a very talented designer, so that helps a lot.

But also I think just a lot, not everyone likes, it also engages really well because he's, he's doing it with very well loved logos and some people love those brands and existing logos, so you're getting the engagement from the people that don't like what he's done, which I'm sure is quite deliberate [00:17:00] as well.

Matt Edmundson: Oh, I'm sure, I'm sure it's all very, very intentional, but he's done an astounding job. Uh, but I think that the thing is here is he has also used Instagram to grow his business, hasn't he? He's, he's sort of gone that sort of route of using social media and using it very well. Um, and understanding that, which is, I think, you know, one of your tricks, isn't it?

And I, Instagram's very visual and I think if you're going to do something quite visual, Instagram makes a lot of sense to, to grow your business. Your business? I mean, what are some of the things that you've, I guess, you know, over the last few years you've learned about Instagram in terms of using it to grow your audience?

Nick Radcliffe: Um, first of all, it's pretty easy. Um, and also one thing I've learned is that some of the things you think are gonna really. Sort of hit the spot and get lots of engagement, don't , and then the opposite can happen. So, uh, just learn to accept that and not feel too downhearted. If you, you know, when you click send and there's sort of, uh, [00:18:00] nothing happens, just try to just get over it.

um, I've also found it, so I'll be interested to get your thoughts on this. So, um, it's great for organic reach, but I, and I have tinkered with doing, um. Like boosted posts or promoted posts on Instagram, um, so that's been quite a, an easy way of doing and paid, um, marketing with sometimes pretty good results.

Um, so I, so I quite often if I boost a post, it will get a cost per click of anything from sort of 16 to 30 pence per click. Yeah. Which feels pretty good.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, it's not bad. I mean, it depends if, you know, how many of those clicks are converting into customers and how much they're buying.

Nick Radcliffe: Yeah, so that's the thing with, um, doing the boosted posts as opposed to, you know, The setting up an Instagram [00:19:00] ad, um, so I don't, so you can't use a, you know, your metapixel and you can't really get those, um, you know, you can't measure it in that sort of way.

Um, but when I've, on the flip side, when I've done. Set up a, you know, a proper in the meta business suite, um, social media posts, um, I'm getting, it sort of suddenly plummets to three pounds per click and I get sort of terrified and switch it off.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've been there.

Nick Radcliffe: It's a familiar story, but yeah.

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: I think we've all been there. There'll be people listening going, yeah, we're still there. Uh, if I'm honest with you. Yeah, right. Um, yeah. Yeah. I mean, cost, cost per click is. is horrendous when you look at the meta platform because you're competing with so many different things. Um, and this is where you have to be really clear on, okay, if I've spent, you know, 20 bucks today, uh, on Instagram ads, how many sales [00:20:00] did that bring in?

And if it brought in enough 20 bucks, You're at a break even. Okay, can we improve on that? Yes or no? And I think it's one of those where, um, the, the, it almost becomes terrifying when you think about the size of the numbers. Um, in my head, rightly or wrongly, Nick, I think about like Monopoly money, and you spend 10s of 1000s of pounds on ads, but you go, okay, well, that's fine, as long as, My return on my ad spend or the ROAS, as people like to call it, is sufficient to cover the cost of that, the cost of my materials or time or whatever and generate for me the profits that I need.

So, um, yeah, the, the people that, that it's funny, isn't it? The bigger your eCommerce business grows, the more meta benefits. I think they're the, they make more money than anybody, you know, in terms of when you do the payouts or, or Google do some, do you know what I mean? They're like, oh yes. Just go, go and build your business and then make us more money as you spend it all on ads because [00:21:00] you, you know, you're a crazy human being.

Um, but yeah, I, I get that. I think the only thing you can do to test whether boosted posts work or not is, um, is to say, right, this design I'm going to boost from day one and see what sales I get. This design over here, I'm not going to boost and I'm going to see the corresponding difference and you can get some kind of gauge on it, I suppose, couldn't you?

But, um.

Nick Radcliffe: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In general, we're not aiming. When I boost a post, you get, you get a, at least you get a feel for how much your sales have increased, even if it's by exact numbers, and like you say, if you, if you're fairly confident that you're at least covering the cost of your ad, and then, you know, and you've potentially acquired a customer as well, and there's future value in that, so you sort of generally get a sense that it's helpful.

But I sort of get, I'm just conscious that if I've, if ever I wanted to increase that, um, doing it properly with the pixel, then that's going to be quite costly and just, [00:22:00] yeah, and it could be money down the drain.

Matt Edmundson: It can, and I, and there's no, regardless of what the gurus tell you, I think sometimes it's trial and error, um, and you've got to bear in mind that you've got to be You've got, I think it's, it's three to six months before you find out what actually works.

And so you've got to be prepared to sink that investment. And it's, I mean, I can't do it. I feel your pain, brother. I do. I feel you, especially because you're already paying, you know, your right kidney for Adobe Illustrator. So you,

Nick Radcliffe: but it's interesting though, like, um, I guess going back to Alan Peters, as far as, well, maybe he does do pay posts, but the ones that we're talking about, that's all organic reach, isn't it?

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, and I think he's done super well with that, you know, and his organic reach has got, and he's just got, the problem for him now is going to be constantly pumping it out.

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: to maintain that reach and the problem with content [00:23:00] creation is it becomes its own worst nightmare because you've got to keep putting stuff out there and keep putting stuff out there and the problem is you think every time you've got to put something fresh something new which of course you don't because no one's looked past his last six posts anyway on that especially if they're new so uh yeah it becomes one of those things where I hope he doesn't get burnt out with The content creation and the same for you, you know, I think if you're using it to grow your business, then invest a lot of time in it.

I would suggest you probably should be posting every day. I don't know what kind of stuff you do, but behind the scenes works really well. You know, all those reels kind of thing, I think is, um, to burst that organic reach is really great.

Nick Radcliffe: Yeah, I think you're probably right. I could, I could, I could increase it once a day.

It should be manageable.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, I could, yeah, I think especially if it's your main outreach tool, because in one sense it's free, but in another sense, it's not because it's your time. Um, and it seems that people, you know, if your ideal [00:24:00] Instagram, then I would be on there. You know, at least once a day, maybe however it's going to work.

Um, I'd maybe even do, you know, come draw with me or come design with me sessions where it's live streamed, you know, and it's that kind of, We're going to make this together and come draw with me and I'll show you how to do it or whatever. Those kind of things I think work super well. Um, even YouTube, I think is good for stuff like that, but I think YouTube accounts take a bit of time to build up and then you've got all the editing and yeah,

Nick Radcliffe: yeah.

Matt Edmundson: All a big nightmare. So you've been full time since April. Uh, and at the time of recording, that's three months. Um, so what caused you to go from part time to full time?

Nick Radcliffe: Um, so, so part of it was just became necessary because I, um, was getting, I was, pretty burnt out with, uh, well, yeah, with the medical career.

I mean, there's a bit more to it. There's been big life events that have pretty, sort of left some scar [00:25:00] tissue. We had, our daughter died, um, I mean, over 10 years ago, but, um, she had leukemia. So I think I'm still just, that's just left scar tissue, like I said, in the form of just getting very tired and, um, just low capacity.

And in addition to that, my. My wife now, she's got long COVID, so, um, her capacity is pretty low, so part of it's been necessity. Uh, I just couldn't sustain doing, um, Medical clinics that were just wearing me out. Yeah. Um, but, so there's that side of things, but also I've just found, I, I really love doing this creative business and I really love it, all the aspects of it.

So the design, the being nerdy about choosing the packaging and doing reels and Instagram and Mm-Hmm. All the different sort of facets to it. So, um, it's that, you know, it's not just the sort of negative of wanting to leave things behind, it's just, um. Enjoying this challenge and [00:26:00] so those two things and and it was growing enough to To make it feel like it's it's worth taking the leap.

Yeah

Nick Radcliffe: And as I say, I haven't haven't looked back I mean, it's still a little uncertain as to whether that financially is going to be sustainable but in terms of um, You know, just go for it and at least give me a go. I'm really pleased I've done that.

Matt Edmundson: Well, it's fair. I mean, I'm obviously sorry to hear about your daughter and your, and your wife.

And, um, the irony is not lost on me that you're in the medical profession and, and, and here you're, you know, your daughter and your wife, quite severe conditions going on. But I get the joy. of being creative, um, and I get the, I get the buzz that comes about with, you know, when you've, when you've actually put something down on a piece of paper and you go, that's really good.

And I, you know, and you're kinda like, [00:27:00] yeah, that's working. And yeah. It's quite fascinating, I suppose one of the questions people are, I mean you briefly alluded to it, but you're three months into it, have you been able to create an income for yourself yet or is it still early doors?

Nick Radcliffe: Yes, I pay myself and um, yeah, so, so far that helps as well.

So, it's quite, there's a lot of tax efficiencies, aren't there, with being, having your own business. So, that's helping. Um, and including, so, although my wife is, you know, her capacity is pretty low, there's, she's still able to, you know, she helps with sort of, Packing up some of the orders and that sort of thing.

Mm-Hmm. , um, to a much lesser degree than she might otherwise. But, um, yeah. So that previously she's stay at home mom, so anyway, she gets a little income from that to the family income. Mm-Hmm. . So that side of things. Yes. Um. So we're still a little bit living off what little savings we had and that pot is sort of gradually reducing and [00:28:00] but on the other hand you know because I've gone full time there's a lot more I've been able to do and start to link in with wholesalers and um there's been some more events and that sort of thing so that's so it does feel it's growing so I'm hoping that pot of money running out and uh, you income increasing, it's going to coincide about the right time.

Matt Edmundson: That's where your prayer life gets so much better, isn't it? That's right, yeah. Amazing how many entrepreneurs start praying, it's one of those.

Nick Radcliffe: Yeah, definitely feeling dependent on, yeah, not on a regular salary.

Matt Edmundson: We've all been there, still there every month, if I'm honest with you. I think as you get bigger in business, it's the same thing every month, like, Oh, will there be enough money? It's not, and now it's not just for me, there's however many staff, there's the rent, do you know what I mean? There's all the extra bills to pay.

Um, and all the things that you just, every month you're like, well, I don't know, we'll find out, I suppose, you know, it's because it becomes less of a worry, I [00:29:00] suppose.

Nick Radcliffe: It'll work out.

Matt Edmundson: It'll work out. It'll work out. Why did you choose Shopify? Out of curiosity.

Nick Radcliffe: So, um, I just didn't really know any other options.

No, that's not true. I, I tinkered with like, WordPress for non e-commerce things in the past. Mm-Hmm. . So I'm familiar with WordPress, so I knew they've got, I think it's word, is it? Woo. WooCommerce. WooCommerce, yeah. Into that. Um, I think I just Googled around a bit and I'm not really one for doing huge amounts of research.

I just think enough people are talking about it enough people are saying it's working well for them. Yeah. I'm just gonna go for it. Um, and I did, and I, I've been happy with it.

Matt Edmundson: And did you do it all yourself? Did you get a company involved?

Nick Radcliffe: I've done it all myself, yeah, on one of their sort of basic themes, but I think even with those you can, you know, If you keep it basic and not overcomplicate things you can get it looking quite nice.

That's such a,

Matt Edmundson: you have no idea how cool that lesson is you have learned. [00:30:00] There are people that have been around 20 years still don't know that lesson. If you keep it simple it will look nice, right?

Yeah,

Nick Radcliffe: yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Rather than overcomplicate it.

Nick Radcliffe: Yeah, um, and then I've added, you know, now I've got a handful of apps that I've had to start paying for to do some things that the basic Shopify can't do.

Matt Edmundson: So what apps, I'm curious, what apps have you found really helpful? So

Nick Radcliffe: one in particular called Deal Easy, which allows me to, so for example, um, With posters, if people are buying more than one, they get a discount or there's a tiered discount structure. So buy two or buy between four and six, you get even more discount and so on.

And there's a little table at the checkout cart, um, that's really, um, been good. A lot of people use that and you can, it can break that down into your different products. So you get it for posters or you just do it for your notebooks or whatever. It's been really good. [00:31:00] Um, then, um, There's one that, oh, I forget what it's called.

If you bear with me, I'll have a look in my app list. So, there's one, um, that's St Prozy's Google Shopping Feed, because without that I found that, um, the, all my products were going to Google Merchant Centre, but all the different variations as well. So, say, if I've got a particular poster design, um, Then, but the A1 one costs 55 quid.

So that's the thing that would be showing up in people's Google search. Whereas I want the A4, nine pounds to go up and that's it. That's been good. Um, and then, oh, order deadline has been very good. So Shopify natively doesn't have a, uh, the ability to, um, you know, the checkout, like on Amazon. So if you order today before one o'clock, it'll arrive with you.

whenever, yeah, particular day. Um, so there's one called Order Deadline [00:32:00] that allows me to do that.

Matt Edmundson: Very good. So those are

Nick Radcliffe: the three that come to mind.

Matt Edmundson: Very good. So what are some of the, I mean, it's a fairly, I love this because we've just started really doing the Founders Series and yours just started the founding thing really, it's very new to the whole thing.

But I'm, you know, you've obviously been doing this as a side hustle for a little bit. What are some of the challenges that you're facing?

Nick Radcliffe: Um, definitely, so what comes to mind is, you Um, space. Mm-Hmm. In terms of premises, um, again, I'd be interested in your thoughts on this. So, currently I am operating out of the biggest bedroom in our house, which is, you know, reasonably s reasonable size.

But, um, mm-hmm, , I, um, and I, and I, and I love, I just love working from home and just get, you know, I can get coffee. My comfy clothes. And so in a way, I don't wanna lose this. Mm-Hmm. benefit if I give for myself. But I, um, I, you know, I, I'm running outta space. Like if I want to have new product [00:33:00] lines, I, I don't really have any space to put them.

Right. And also, if I want to order larger quantities to try and reduce. You know, the price per item from my suppliers, I don't have really space to put that. So it's weighing up, um, the pros and cons of that.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, it's an interesting one, isn't it? I, I, I remember when we did our first business, I'm going back to 2002 now, Nick, I, when we did ours, we were operating out of a small, small back room.

I just had three computers in there and we filled every single shelf with the products which we were distributing.

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Uh, and it was crazy. And I, I remember we'd pack them in the parcels and I'd go down to the post office and stand in the queue with 20 boxes or 30 boxes or whatever it was, you know, and do this every day.

And at some point you kind of go, I just don't want to do this anymore. Uh, you know, when's enough enough. And it's an interesting one, isn't it? [00:34:00] Because you, the trouble with rent is at the moment is it's expensive. Yeah. And so then it's not don't do it. But I think I, I, I. It just becomes a nightmare. So we started, I started to do things like I thought, right, I'm gonna, rather than go and spend money on rent, I'm going to build a big garage down at the bottom of my garden.

Um, and I did that for a little while. And then once I outgrew that, then actually we were starting to make a bit more money, which then made. sense to sort of rent somewhere. Does that make sense? And I, I kind of had this sort of stepping stone process in my head that seemed to work quite well. Plus I got a garage out of it, which was always nice.

Nick Radcliffe: Yeah, pretty good. Yeah. Our garden doesn't, won't allow for that. So it would be, I was going to say how big's your garden? Yeah, no, it's one of these Victorian, um, yards, so.

Matt Edmundson: Oh, okay. So sort of townhouse. I, it's an [00:35:00] interesting one. There are things that you can do. Right. Um, you can obviously go and rent somewhere.

And I think in Liverpool, especially there are some places where you can go and rent where they have favourable rents and rates because you are in the creative space and they're looking to promote that style of business. I can't remember where that is in Liverpool. I was speaking to somebody.

Nick Radcliffe: Baltic Triangle perhaps?

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, yeah, maybe the Georgian Quarter somewhere around there might be worth looking at. Um, and I'm sure every city has these, you know, different spaces where you can go and rent. Um, the other thing that you can do is you can look at something called 3PL. Uh, 3PL is Third Party Logistics and this is where you get Other companies to do your fulfillment so you don't have to rent somewhere.

Other companies do it. So, um, you give them the stuff, the orders come through and they post it out for you. The downside to that, well, the pros are it's usually cheaper than renting your own premises. Um, okay. Not always. But it's worth [00:36:00] looking at from a costing point of view.

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: The downside to it is, um, you're going to have to work with, work hard to find a 3PL that will pack the products the way that you would pack the products, right?

Now I know for you, because I, you know, like I say, we've ordered from your site. Um, and the way you like to send your products is very beautiful, you know, with the, the, the way you, you package them. And I think that's an important thing for a company like yours to do that. Well, Uh, I think, so if you look at 3PL, that's, that's one of the things that would be top of my list is like, can you do what I do or can you make it better?

Um, because I, I found with a beauty company actually how we shipped products. Make such a difference to whether people came back a second time, and, um, yeah, people

Nick Radcliffe: often comment, and it's like the handwritten note, and we should presume you'll get with 3PL, and yeah,

Matt Edmundson: it's weighing up the pros and cons, what's going to work, what's not going to [00:37:00] work, um, and of course then there's rent and space as well, and I think, or of course, the other thing you could do, of course, is, uh, there's a beautiful man called Dan Orange, who, um, I don't know if you know Dan, uh, Dan's a great guy, He just came to me and said, Matt, can I just rent a corner of your warehouse?

Of course you can Dan, we've got plenty of space. Have at it. So you could piggy, I've just hit the camera, sorry. You're excited. Yeah, my arms are longer than I thought they were, Nick.

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: So you could also do something like that if you know somebody or if you, um, because that tends to be again cheaper, um, uh, it's the, it's the only thing to bear in mind.

So I think for me, fundamentally it comes down to a cost thing, um, and obviously taking the leap. I, I get what you're saying, I just physically can't get any more designs in, um, and I think for your business, new design is the lifeblood, isn't it? In a lot of ways.

Nick Radcliffe: Yeah. It's, um, it is. Yeah. So new designs. Yes.

I mean. New [00:38:00] Product Lines is probably, so, um, you know, primarily it's posters, but each of those lend themselves well to then having You know, if they go well on notebooks, or postcards, or greetings cards, and then, you know, it might be a tea towel, it might be, there are other things that have potential to do, but it's those new, if it's a new design, just go on a new poster, I can, I can make that work, but it's, it's product lines, and as I say, volume, in terms of, um, getting, you know, if I want, getting sort of 3, 000 calendars rather than, you 500 or whatever.

Yeah,

Matt Edmundson: yeah. But there's always storage units, you know, that's the other thing you've got. Problematic again. Yeah. So it's, it's not straightforward. I

Nick Radcliffe: really want to be able to just keep having, uh, you know, days in my pyjamas and drinking coffee. Yeah,

Matt Edmundson: let's move to a bigger house then.[00:39:00]

I'll just go down to the church, you know, just go down to your church and just say, listen, I need some space, um, and, uh, see if that will help out. I think my, I think entrepreneurs are great at being creative of solving problems. And I think if space is the problem, there'll be a solution. And it's just finding one that works for you, which will probably be an interim solution.

You know, ultimately, as your business gets successful, you're going to have probably your own printing press going on, you're going to have, you know, I don't know, embroidery machines in the corner making something or whatever. And you're going to need a lot more space for that. But, you know,

Nick Radcliffe: yeah. But I mean, it's interesting you said that about entrepreneurs being problem solvers.

I mean, generally, I mean, I'm Even just trying to solve that problem and work out the options, I just enjoy doing it. Because once you've solved it, you can step back and go, ah, that's worked well, or hasn't, or yeah, so I enjoy it.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, no, absolutely, absolutely. So what other challenges have you been facing?

I mean, you've obviously got the space, and that actually comes from growth, which is always a nice [00:40:00] problem to have. Um, have you, have you thought about say hiring staff because, or are you just going to keep it with yourself?

Nick Radcliffe: Yeah. So staff wise, currently I basically employ, um, teenagers on an ad hoc, including my own on an ad hoc basis, um, to, and that's been, yeah, packing up the posters because they get in some cellophane wraps and packing up the cards, that sort of thing.

So, um, that's been quite straightforward. Um, I think that the, the challenges, um, well first of all, maybe formalizing that as they get bigger. 'cause it needs to be someone more regular, but I'm not quite there yet. The teenage age ad hoc things working fine, but, um, love teenagers, the, yeah, it's great. So, but the other challenge is, is um, if I go on holiday.

Or I just want to get to a point, I just want to, um, I can't really do that without switching off the store or just putting on the store that the orders aren't going to be dispatched for a couple of weeks because I, [00:41:00] um, you just feel that's another step, it's a big jump from teaching someone just to pack up, um, the posters and cards to, to packing the, actually dispatching the orders in the way that I like doing it.

Yeah. And this is where I wonder

Matt Edmundson: whether a third party logistics would be good for you because. This is the problem that we all encounter. It's like, if you, if you are a solopreneur, what happens when you're not there? If you're pick packing and doing all that sort of stuff. Um, and I just wonder whether third party logistics would be good for you.

If you could find someone to give the same love and attention to it, that you give I think that would give you the possibility of growth and taking a vacation.

Nick Radcliffe: So that's interesting, because the other thing, you know, you're asking about what challenges. Another thing, sort of on my mental list, is reaching the market, particularly in the US.

So I get some [00:42:00] customers there. who order online and um, it depends what they buy, but I do some drop shipping for posters to customers in the US, um, but that doesn't work for cards and the other bits of things I do, but um, I'm just wondering if that, the third party logistics could be a solution to that.

Yeah, I guess send a consignment. Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: I don't even think, I mean for now it's just more to send them, what my experience is when people buy from the states, especially when they buy from an international company. For example, I ordered a poster from, um, I forgot his name again, the chap we were talking about earlier.

Nick Radcliffe: Oh, Alan Peters.

Matt Edmundson: Alan Peters, sorry, Alan, I, I'll remember your name at some point. Um, well, he is

Nick Radcliffe: getting lots of mentions,

Matt Edmundson: so He is, yeah, everyone's gonna be, so I bought one of his posters as well off his company website yesterday to see what it's like, charge me eight bucks, um, to ship from the, the states to the uk.

Uh, the poster was 30 bucks. So in effect, I'm paying almost well over 20% shipping, uh, which is quite high. But I'm aware that I'm shipping this internationally, [00:43:00] so I'm okay. Yeah. Now I have a company and we ship to the states. Um, 30, 40 percent of our products go that side of the Atlantic. My experience is people are happy to pay the international shipping.

So I don't think you'll have any dramas with that and I think it will enable you to grow in that sector and you just say, right, listen, order what you want off the website. We're going to ship it from the UK. Um, it's going to take this many days to get there. Um, and it's going to cost whatever, seven or eight bucks to send it.

I think you'll probably get away with about seven or eight bucks to be fair. Um, and I think probably what you'll find is. Your average order value will go up. Um, and this was something that we found. Cause if someone from the States was ordering, they're going, well, if I'm ordering, I might as well order.

Do you know what I mean? I was kind of, I'm in an hour and I was going to get this and maybe that later, I'll just get them both at the same time. Um, and then we started to experiment with shipping rates. So we said, right, well, what would happen if on, Um, [00:44:00] an international order. We said, we'll do free shipping internationally on orders over 75 pounds, um, or 75 or whatever.

I can't remember the exact numbers, Nick, but you know, and we started to experiment with that number. And so you couldn't quite get that figure if you just bought two products. So if you bought three, you would definitely, and we would give three shipping and that seemed to work quite well as well. And that got our average order value up.

So. Yeah, I think, I think third party logistics will be able to help you with that, and I think you'll be able to ship all over the world, I think people will pay international shipping, and I think your average order value will go up.

Nick Radcliffe: I think that's interesting, I need to think through that. Are you, um, I mean, you're, uh, sorry, presumably, can you negotiate with, uh, The shipping companies to get a, you know, if you've got a sort of a, an account with them and you could get cheaper prices for shipping to the US, then they might advertise to, to Joe public.

Matt Edmundson: Oh, that happens all the time. Yeah, yeah. So in fact, um, if I was shipping some, I shipped something to New [00:45:00] Zealand the other day, I made a, Uh, a cabinet for a friend of mine. It was his 70th birthday. And I made this sort of, uh, going back to our hobbies. So this wasn't from an eCommerce website. This is just me shipping to New Zealand.

Now, if I go onto UPS's website and put that information into ship to New Zealand, the figure that comes back is an arm and a leg, right? I mean, it's just, it's, it's, it's massive.

So

Matt Edmundson: what happens is you get companies out there. Um, Oh, what's the one that we've used in the past? Um, What's the other features, is it?

Hahaha Yeah, people tune into this podcast, Matt. You're not very good with names. No, I'm not. There's some logistics, and you can just Google them, they'll come up all the time. There's a company that we use called Global, Transglobal, I think, something like that, Transglobal Logistics or something. You go in, I'll put the address in.

The rate is much cheaper, and what they do is they book out or pre buy so many companies. I guess cubic meters of [00:46:00] space with UPS. They offer it and they get it super cheap from UPS because they're buying so much and then they sell that on super cheap. So yeah, third party, when it comes to things like that, it's super helpful.

And usually if you go to a 3PL, they, because they're shipping out, not just your stuff, but have many other people's stuff, they can tend to get much better rates in theory than you can get yourself. Um, But again, if you're shipping quite a few of them, there's an argument to say go and get your own account, even if you use a 3PL, um, because then the, the post office, I mean, you'd probably just use Royal Mail, I would have thought for international shipping.

Yeah,

Nick Radcliffe: so they, yeah, well, yes, but there's limitations in fact, so I've got an account with Royal Mail and someone comes and collects the bags every day and, um, but they, so I just try to price up a bit. a three kilogram parcel and I can only go up to two kilogram with that account. So I need to explore options.

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. And again, 3PL, I think we'll be able to help you with that. [00:47:00] But again, I would just call the Royal Mail and say, you just need to sort my account out. I just need to be able to do more and more of

Nick Radcliffe: these things.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, that's a

Nick Radcliffe: good point. They are quite helpful.

Matt Edmundson: Usually I think, I think Royal Mail, bizarrely, are actually getting better.

I mean, they were a nightmare for a long time, but they seem to be getting their act together a little bit now.

Nick Radcliffe: Well, they've, they're really, I find them really helpful. I find their interface of their website a little bit sort of difficult to navigate, um, but um, in person, just like you say, just picking up the phone, querying something, they're pretty good.

Matt Edmundson: They're pretty good, they've got people there. You could look at apps like ShipStation, which I don't know, maybe actually Raw Metal have got an integration with Shopify, um, So, the information should just go straight in?

Nick Radcliffe: Yeah, they do, so my orders will come straight into the Click and Drop account. It just is easy.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, what do you have, like a little printer that just prints the label off and you stick it on the front of the parcel?

Nick Radcliffe: Yeah, exactly, yeah. Yeah, and then it's been a game changer just for any other sort of founders listening that's in [00:48:00] fact that's so like you were describing I was sort of going to the post office every day with sort of getting increasingly heavy bags and that was just not being not pleasant and then discovered that you can get an account with the Royal Mail so yeah, And someone comes at 5.

30 every day and picks up my bags and I wave them off and it's just a game changer. So I highly recommend picking up the photo or mail and asking about that. Yeah,

Matt Edmundson: just talk to them actually. A lot of these companies just really want to help you. And everyone fears they have to be a certain size. Just give him a ring and find out.

You'll be amazed. Yeah. And I think that the thing to do with the raw mail guy that comes, picks it up every, every five 30, every day, just make sure you buy him a couple of pints of beer at Christmas and he will be a very happy man. Um, and so this one of the strategies we've learned in our warehouse, there's usually, you know, cases of beer for the different delivery companies.

It seems to work. Um, I'm aware of time, Nick, and I'm just getting caught up in the conversation. I. What's one piece, I mean you've already shared the thing [00:49:00] about the Royal Mail Account, what's one piece of advice maybe that you would give to somebody, or maybe you'd give to yourself going back to 2020, what's one thing you wish you'd knew sort of sooner?

Nick Radcliffe: I think, um,

keep enjoying it, so I'd keep being grateful for, you know, if things are working well, I think that's what I keep trying to remind myself, because, you know, even though I've described really enjoying all the aspects of it, there are days where it's not like. What am I saying? Because it's, you know, there's too much to do or things are going wrong, but just stopping and being grateful for, you know, if I could have told myself in 2020 I'd be doing this now and not getting completely burnt out in a clinic.

That would be super happy. I just remind myself of that.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Yeah. I love that.

Nick Radcliffe: But just, yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Well, actually I think it, I don't know is I think gratitude is one of those things that is, It's Insanely [00:50:00] Practical and Insanely Helpful and Good for your Mental Health and it just keeps the, you know, it keeps everything going, doesn't it really, but, um, no, very good.

Nick, listen, we've got to the stage where I'm going to ask for the question for Matt. This is where we, well, we, I ask guests for a question, which I then answer on my social media channels. I don't answer it in the podcast. This is totally a con on my part. Cons may be a Bit of a stretch but, you know, this is just me to get you to come follow me on social media basically, uh, dear listener.

That's, if you've not seen Through the Roofs, that's all I'm doing. No, it's not, I mean, there's more to it than that but I'm generally curious, what's the question for Matt?

Nick Radcliffe: So it's a question just occurred to me based on what we've just been speaking about, which is how do you, um, well, do you, how do you keep boundaries in your working hours as a, an entrepreneur?

Do you stick with nine to five? Do you, um, just work into the night and just accept that as part of the job or, you know, what's [00:51:00] your approach with that?

Matt Edmundson: Fantastic. I will answer that question, of course, on the social media channels. Come find me at Matt Edmundson. Uh, but Nick, this has been great, man. Uh, where, what's the future hold?

What does tomorrow look like for you? Not literally tomorrow, but you know, where are you going?

Nick Radcliffe: Yeah, I'm growing enough to know that this is going to pay the bills and, um, yeah, I, I think, um, looking towards the international market, I think the U S market is huge. Um, particularly. Well, for most things, but including something I do, so exploring that.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, now that would make a lot of sense. If you can start cracking into the US, I think, um, I can see that doing great things for you. And some of the things that I would then start to look at are going to be like, Would subscription commerce make sense, like doing a monthly subscription box? Possibly, that might be a big deal.

Um, I do, I do think you might need to get your head around email marketing and figure out why it's not working, because in theory, that should be adding 30 40 percent to your bottom line. And [00:52:00] so, something's not quite right there, which I Yeah, no. I think needs, um, needs fixing.

Nick Radcliffe: Pretty sure you're right.

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Um, and so I'd be looking at that. I'd be looking at getting my email marketing sorted, breaking into the US a little bit more, possibly in a year or two's time, looking at the subscription box. And could you make that work? I think you probably could. There are ways to do that. Um, but yeah, I love what you're doing, man.

And I love the design aspect of it. And like I said, you won Zoe over, which is a big deal. So, uh, keep going, brother. That was

Nick Radcliffe: going to be much better. That was going to be my final question. What's Zoe's um, Instagram handle? Because that actually is really good, I love your t shirt.

Matt Edmundson: Oh this? Yeah, yeah, no she's doing, she's creating a whole bunch of stuff for me, which is great, so.

Is

Nick Radcliffe: she on Instagram?

Matt Edmundson: Uh, she is. I will give her a shout out when I know what her Instagram handle is.

I think, I'm gonna check now, hang on, I'm gonna pull up Instagram. Hey, what are you Zoe? I think she's Zoe. Edmundson. Yeah, Zoe. Edmundson. Has she put any of her [00:53:00] graphics on there? No, she hasn't at all. She's just put stuff she's crocheted. Oh no, she's put on there a picture of a pineapple she drew. Uh, she's, you know, cool.

Pineapple with glasses. Don't quite understand that, but anyway. Um, but no, listen, Nick, how did, I mean, thank you for the plug for Zoe, but how do people reach you? What's your Instagram handle, LinkedIn, all that sort of stuff. How do people find out more about you?

Nick Radcliffe: Yeah. So in terms of social media, definitely mainly Instagram and it's the Christian Poster Company.

It's the handle. All one word? Yep, all one word. And, um, otherwise, the website. Find me on there and there's a contact form.

Matt Edmundson: And the website is? Good point, thechristianpostacompany. com There we go, brilliant. So the Christian Post Company on Instagram and on the website, we will of course link to that in the show notes as well.

Uh, so, uh, if you're on the podcast app, just scroll down and they'll, the link will be in there. Go [00:54:00] and have a look, have a browse and make sure you connect with Nick and say, how's it? Um, and buy some of his stuff. Duff because it's really good . Thanks man. Come along and bye bye bye. Uh, but listen, Nick, thanks for coming on man.

I really enjoyed the conversation and um, thanks for being a willy willing Guinea pig. I think has con you into this somehow as we were starting the founder series, she was like on to get Nick on the show. I was like, great. I like your stuff.

Nick Radcliffe: Yeah, great. No, it's been a real pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Matt Edmundson: No problem, no problem. Now be sure to follow the eCommerce Podcast wherever you get your podcast from because we've got more great conversations lined up and I don't want you to miss any of them. And in case no one has told you yet today, let me be the first. You are awesome. Yes, you are. Created awesome.

Just like the t shirt says. Uh, it's just a burden you have to bear. Nick's got to bear it, I've got to bear it, you've got to bear it as well. The eCommerce Podcast is produced by [00:55:00] PodJunction. You can find our entire archive of episodes on your favorite podcast app or on our website. Sites that E, which is not the, uh, it's eCommerce podcast.net.

You can find all the information on there. The team that makes this show possible is Sadaf Beynon and Jonah Prisk. Our theme music was written by Josh Edmundson, and as I mentioned, if you would like to read the transcript, all the show notes, head to the website, eCommerce podcast dot. And if you haven't done so already, sign up to the newsletter, because you can do that there as well.

Uh, but that's it from me, that's it from Nick, thank you so much for joining us, have a fantastic week wherever you are in the world, I'll see you next time, bye for now.

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