From Beading Station to TOMM Jewellery with Lucy Toone | Lucy Toone

Matt Edmundson [0:05 - 2:40]: Well, hello and welcome back to the E Commerce podcast with me, your host, Matt Edmondson. Now this is a show all about helping you deliver e commerce. Wow. And today to do just that, we are chatting with the delightful Lucy Toon from Tom Jewelry and we are going to be getting into her e commerce story. This is one of our founder edition episodes, which is great. I love these. I get to talk to in the in the trenches fellow E commerce is doing their thing day in, day out and I've been looking forward to this for a while. Lucy and I have been planning this for a while. So you're going to want to grab your notebooks, grab your pens, because I'm sure this is going to be absolutely fascinating. Now of course, if you're subscribed to the newsletter, all of the notes, links, etc will be winging their way to your inbox at some point. The other thing to mention, of course is if you're not subscribed to the newsletter, you can just head over to the website ecommercepodcast.net you'll find everything there or podcast app. Just scroll down. All the links and stuff are in there as well. Now actually, I should probably give a little bit of a shout out to my man Oliver Spock who introduced Lucy and I. When was it, Lucy? In the summer, I think it was, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah. Over, over, over a bit of. Bit of lunch and a pint, I think it was. And it was lovely and so I thought Lucy would be great. So Oliver from Suite analytics who has been a guest on the podcast, big shout out to you, man. And of course, if you're looking for something, you know, to do your analytics with and important data, go check out Spot analytics because it is no Sweet analytics by Oliver Spike. You get those two things mixed up. It's Sweet Analytics. It's Oliver Spark's company. It's what I use. You are gonna want to check it out. Yes you are. And if you've been following the podcast, there is some special link that takes you to a sort of, well, a mat special on the suite Analytics. So we'll put that link in the show notes as well. If you follow that link, you get a really special deal. If you don't follow that link, go sign up anyway because it's worth it. We did and so definitely do that. Lucy shouting the praise as well. Lucy, you're getting ahead of me. Let's talk about Lucy. Lucy is the founder of Tom Jewelry. Growing up as a tomboy, Lucy often felt dismissed by retailers who didn't see her as their typical customer. That experience fueled her passion to create a jewelry brand that welcomes all women and celebrates their unique beauty. Tom Jewelry isn't just about looking good. It is about feeling confident and owning who you are. Lucy, welcome to the show. Thank you for coming on.

Lucy Toone [2:41 - 2:42]: Thank you.

Matt Edmundson [2:42 - 2:44]: Are you doing all right? Are we doing good?

Lucy Toone [2:44 - 2:58]: Good. It's Monday. There's lots of opportunities coming our way on a Monday. Always try and think positive about it. Yeah, no, all good. All good. I'm excited with you.

Matt Edmundson [2:58 - 3:11]: Yeah, it's brilliant. No, love it. Let's, for the sake of people who may not have heard of Tom Jewelry, before we get into it too much, just give us the. The quick elevator pitch of Tom Joy, if you like, what is it you do, what makes you unique?

Lucy Toone [3:12 - 4:11]: So our ethos is your story first and not basically. From products to our content to the website to the experience when you purchase the product, we really try to focus on how you feel and making the journey as personalized really as possible. Creating products that make your story elevated. Instead of kind of us creating a campaign or creating a product on the way that we feel, we want it to be an expression of how you feel. So, yeah, personalization is probably the most. The most focused thing that we do at Tom. But yeah, again, how you feel, I think that's really important. And what excites me most about E commerce is how you can develop that in such a cool way.

Matt Edmundson [4:12 - 4:46]: Okay, so I mean, this sounds fascinating already. I've got a million questions for you, Lucy. I'm curious, what does that mean on a day to day basis? So how do you. Because I can hear and I don't want to be stereotypical because I think, you know, it's not really that helpful. But for many men, right, listening to you, they will go, what do you mean? You focus on how you feel? How do you do that with a website? What's your playbook there?

Lucy Toone [4:47 - 6:21]: So we have got miles to go and it's something that is. Is very important that we develop. But interesting. You say for men, you know, we have an audience, a male audience because a lot of our products are very giftable jewelry brand. So creating products that spark your imagination to go, oh, I can gift this to my wife or my partner or my niece or my daughter. That's an audience that we really want to capture. And I think from your perspective as well as, you know, the female audience who want to purchase for themselves, when you go to order something, you want it to be an experience, whether that be for you or for the person you're gifting it to? I hate shopping, so I do. I hate going through shops. I don't. My attention span for online shopping is poor. So for me to enjoy it, it's got to be somewhat fun. It's got to be. I want some playfulness to it and something that we're really wanting to develop and I think will be the, probably the focus for 2025 will be making this gifting experience so fun that the male customer only wants to ever purchase from us because it's boring shopping anywhere else.

Matt Edmundson [6:21 - 6:25]: Very good. I'm in. I'm in. Just tell me where to go, you.

Lucy Toone [6:25 - 6:46]: Know, because you've got to as much. And I think that's the thing is gifting as much as it is lovely to go. Oh, I'm buying this for them because I want them to feel special. You say that because you want to feel good. Making someone else feel special. It's completely, it's a self consumed thing as much as it doesn't. You might think it's not, but it is.

Matt Edmundson [6:48 - 7:08]: That's really interesting. Well, like I say, I'm going to, I'm going to watch out for it. How you do that in 2025 and I'm curious. Let's. Let's start back in. It says here in my research, Lucy, that you started making jewelry when you were 10 years old. Is that correct?

Lucy Toone [7:09 - 7:10]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [7:13 - 7:22]: For any specific reason? Was somebody in your family doing that? Were you like just crazy? I just want to start making jewelry. Was it a gift or something at Christmas?

Lucy Toone [7:22 - 7:35]: Yeah, no, it was just a creative thing, I think. I actually have no idea why I started. Well, so my dad's, I'm actually sat in his office right now. He made fly. Flies for fly fishing.

Matt Edmundson [7:35 - 7:35]: Okay.

Lucy Toone [7:35 - 8:30]: We had like this station and it had like beads and stuff in it. And obviously he wasn't making jewelry. But I love that the, I love that the stuff that you needed to create this, this end thing. And my granddad had made him what he called a fly fishing station. And I went, I want one and I want it to be like my beading station. So my dad, my granddad and my dad are both carpenters. So anyway, long, long story short, ended up having this station which allowed me to make bracelets and made them for my friends. Made them for, you know, friends in school had parties, like birthday parties. That was the only birthday party I ever wanted was my friends to come around and make bracelets with me. But that was it. There was no other. There was no Jewelry background. It probably, yeah, was more to do with this ability of creating something which was unique to me.

Matt Edmundson [8:30 - 8:43]: So when you were, when you were growing up then and you're making the jewelry, is this all you ever wanted to do? Or was, was. Did you sort of stumble into it by accident? Was it a case of last resort? I'm curious, what was the.

Lucy Toone [8:43 - 10:01]: I didn't, it didn't continue. I wasn't like, you know, 10 years old and then all the way up until 19 starting Tom. I'd stopped making jewelry. You know, I discovered boys. I ended up going to parties. You know, it was a kind of. I didn't do it in secondary school and then started doing it again at end of secondary school. But I always wanted to be an actress. I always wanted overall singing, musical theatre. I still love it. Again, it's like that creative, playful being, you know, whatever you want to do but just never did it. Never kind of ended up going down that route completely. I always think that I could, if I wanted to do some auditions, I'd go and do some auditions. But yeah, jewelry honestly was, was for me a way of being creative and I could make one product into another and it was like problem solving. And I'd have people ask me, oh, can you do this with it? And I go, oh, let me see. And I think that's what I like. It was a form of expressing something in a way that I had complete control over. Unlike, you know, going into acting, you don't really have any control. Yeah, that's true, very true to. Yeah, to do what you want to do. But yes, it's, that's where it all stemmed from.

Matt Edmundson [10:02 - 10:54]: I have. There's a beautiful young lady in her early 20s that lives in our house. She is one of our lodges. Should have become like an adopted daughter in many ways. She's an actress and she's, she's always going off on auditions. She was in some film the other day, dressed up, you know and she sent me a video. She was in some kind of costume from you know, the Victorian era or. And look, the way they did the makeup and everything was phenomenal and I just thought it took four or five hours for a ten minute scene. And you're kind of like how I don't get that business. Not going to lie. But she loves it and it, it really fuels her. So I, I get the appeal for you but you obviously you started Tom. Why Tom? That was another question I had for you. Why Tom? Tomm. Not even Tom.

Lucy Toone [10:54 - 11:12]: Yeah, there's no explanation for the extraordinary. I couldn't get the domain name and it's worked in my favor. Do you know what? It's nothing to do with tomfoolery.

Matt Edmundson [11:13 - 11:13]: Okay.

Lucy Toone [11:13 - 11:19]: That's why everyone assumes it is. I didn't know Cockney rum and slang. That is not the reason why it is.

Matt Edmundson [11:19 - 11:23]: You should probably explain for American audience. Tomfoolery.

Lucy Toone [11:23 - 11:36]: Yeah. Tomfoolery is cockney rhyme slang for jewelry, which I did not know. And the reason why I went for it is I just, I always wanted a brother.

Matt Edmundson [11:36 - 11:37]: Okay.

Lucy Toone [11:37 - 12:43]: And I've got two sisters, so my dad lives in a family with four women in the house. So it's quite like a lot of feminine energy. And I grew up more of like a tomboy, more of like a brother. I was out, I was like work girl, my dad would call me. I was out with my work gear on and I'd go fly fishing with my dad and always kind of was like the protective sister. So, yeah, I wanted a masculine, I wanted a masculine name for my brand because I think jewelry is perceived to be very feminine. So I kind of wanted the contrast of a feminine and masculine name. Kind of pink. Pink is obviously extremely feminine, but with the name Tom, I thought it was a nice contrast. To be honest. 19 year old Lucy didn't think that much about it and that was. It was going to be called Ollie, but then I was like, Ollie jewelry sounds a bit like oily jewelry. It doesn't. Time. Yeah. But yeah, we landed on Tom and, and it sits quite nicely now.

Matt Edmundson [12:43 - 13:35]: Tom Jewellery. That's how Tom Jewelry was started. Sometimes the best branding and the best naming are just things that come out by accident. You know, we. I've been in rooms like I was a. I've served, for example, as an, as a board director for a PLC and I sat in rooms where there's been £120,000 on the table. In terms of just a branding, how do we brand a borrowed chocolate, you know, what do we call it? What? What. And it's cost one grand to find out. And you're just like, that's a lot of money. And you know that chocolate's not around today so you don't have to go and spend an awful lot of money on these things. So you were 19 when Tom jewelry started and was when it started, was it just literally you working at the beading station your granddad built you with a website and just a lot of dreams?

Lucy Toone [13:35 - 15:08]: Yeah, I didn't even, I didn't even start the Worms. I think if I started the website I hadn't started the website straight away. I went. I literally started by going and doing events in like craft events. First event I did was in a pub down the road from me called the Waverly. And I had again, my granddad had cut me out all this display, which looked beautiful, but it just looked way too good in the Waverly. And it was like really expensive jewelry and at the time it was only silver plated. So we were selling bracelets for like £10. Yeah, pretty good price. I didn't sell a single bracelet, which is. It was amazing. But yeah, started doing that and then I think I got made up myself a wix website in like the August of that year 2000. I think it was 2019 as well. So. Yeah. But yeah, just one bracelet at a time, really. I don't even think I had. I didn't have a website because I wasn't selling anything specific. I would just go and make a random bracelet, put it on the table at the next event and see what people thought. And sometimes I'd forget what I'd made. But yeah, it was just, it was kind of like, oh, just try this. It wasn't. There was no, no business mind in it. It was just, let's try. Which is cool, I think.

Matt Edmundson [15:08 - 15:58]: Yeah. You know what, though? I love that, you know, that whole, let's just try and have a go. Let's see how it works. We call it TDL in the office. Try discover, learn and. Or discover, Try learn. Detail is the technical name for it. Where you find an opportunity, you try it, you have a go and you figure out what you can learn from it. And it's quite an interesting framework for creativity in many ways. Because just having a go rather than trying to figure it all out is probably one of the keys to certainly my entrepreneurial success. Because you just fall into these things, the opportunities, they come up, they present and you just go, well, let's just have a go, see what happens. Right. And lo and behold, you do that enough and somehow you've made it, you know, a few years down the road and it's like, oh, this is now a proper business. Goodness me, we never knew, Right?

Lucy Toone [15:58 - 16:01]: It's like a child, isn't it? That's what children do.

Matt Edmundson [16:01 - 16:05]: Yeah, yeah. That's why it works. I think I'm just a big kid.

Lucy Toone [16:06 - 16:09]: Yeah. I think that's the great best way to be.

Matt Edmundson [16:09 - 16:21]: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So Fast forward then five years, here we are in 2024, the time of recording. Is it still just you with your grandpa's table or is there more to Tom Jewelry now?

Lucy Toone [16:21 - 17:22]: Yeah, no, there's more to Tom. We have got a team. We got a team back. So got our first team member back in 2021 and yeah, run from. Run our offices from Chichester. So we've got like. We do all of our filming in house production. We do. We actually make about 60% of our SKUs in house. So from components, putting them together, which is quite cool. So there's like a lot of insight. We get to be really creative with what we get to show our audience, which I think is a. Is something that a lot of E commerce businesses nowadays don't do. And it's very, you know, you know, a lot of people are running it from their houses, which is great if you can do that. But I. Quite something. I don't know why I like the chaos of it, but I like the chaos of fulfillment and production. It's a love hate relationship.

Matt Edmundson [17:23 - 18:26]: It is. But I find when you start doing fulfillment yourself, because again we sort of when we started out in E commerce, they weren't what we now call third party logistics. They weren't these three PLs that you could go to and say can you do my fulfillment please? You kind of had to do it yourself really. So I remember when we first started doing E commerce for the first however many, you know, until we sold enough parcels every day that the Royal Mail would come to me, I had to go stand in the queue at the post office every day. And it's just, it's just what you did back then, wasn't it? And. But I think there's something about fulfillment in house, if you can do it, makes a lot of sense because there's one thing you get to control and that's how the parcels packaged. And I'm imagining for you, Lucy, and correct me if I'm wrong, that actually just shoving a box, a jewelry box in a padded envelope. I would imagine there's more to it than that in many ways. And you get to control that story, don't you, when you do your own fulfillment?

Lucy Toone [18:26 - 19:54]: Yeah, everything. I think that's every touch point is what is something that we get a lot of reviews about is our packaging and how like unexpected they were. Like this is something we're trying to resolve because people are more shocked about how good the quality is. Which we're like, what's why people shocked by maybe we're not showing it well enough. Which is something we're trying to resolve at the moment. But the packaging. Yes. From the point of how you make someone feel when they open it. And again there's, there's always things, always rooms to develop. It's, you know, a balancing act of money. We're self funded, you know, what should we invest in first? And packaging is expensive and, but like even little notes of, we do these cards which are like, who packed your order? And logistically it's good for us to know who packed for order. But also the customers love knowing that, oh, Chloe packed my order. Like, and you know, they might see Chloe on an Instagram story and they feel like this real personal touch and they know that it's, you know, a human being has put effort into tying that bow. And yeah, it's that, that little extra which does, you know, those extra seconds, I think do make an impact on someone, especially when we can, you know, get access to so many things so quickly and it never feels that it's ever had human contact.

Matt Edmundson [19:55 - 20:16]: Yeah, I think you're totally right. I think we realized ourselves actually that the one thing that was within our control, because when we started doing beauty, for example, we sold other people's brands. So I couldn't control what was in the, in that box. I couldn't control what was in that tube of moisturizer, for example.

Lucy Toone [20:16 - 20:16]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [20:16 - 20:46]: And if it was good, people would want to buy it. So the question was, why would people want to buy it from us versus somebody else? And the one thing I could control was what they felt like when they opened our parcel. Right. So everybody else was just shoving the beauty product in a jiffy bag and shipping out. So it was cheap, quick and easy. And we realized quite quickly that people spending an average of 70 pounds on skincare weren't just buying skincare, they were buying a treat for themselves.

Lucy Toone [20:46 - 20:46]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [20:47 - 21:38]: And so we needed it to feel like a gift, not a thing thrown in a jiffy bag. And so we changed everything about that. We made it a giftable experience when you opened it up. And it was probably the single biggest factor in our repeat purchase rates. As in, they shot through the roof when we did that. Do you see what I mean? That. And just. And the things that we, when you analyze what we did, we put an extra flap on a cardboard box so it took longer to open. Right. So it felt more gifty. We put tissue paper inside with a little sticker on, which had a quirky note on there. We branded the inside of the box and then we took out the plastic bubbles that we've been using for a while to protect the beauty products, and we replaced them with popcorn which is quite a fun packaging material.

Lucy Toone [21:38 - 21:39]: Popcorn.

Matt Edmundson [21:39 - 22:02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We had popcorn machines in the warehouse just popping popcorn. It was great. Yeah, it was incredible, really. We, I mean, we tried different. We tried over 20 types of popcorn to get the right popcorn, which was just crazy. And this was a packaging material, you know, and people loved it. And people started posting photos on social media and all kinds of stuff.

Lucy Toone [22:02 - 22:02]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [22:02 - 22:21]: To the point where I thought I should probably recall, rename the company Popcorn Beauty or something like that. But that's what we did. And our repeat purchase rate shot up when we understood the power of the opening experience. So not just am I getting a good quality product, let's assume that I am. But the way that I feel when I open that quality product makes a massive difference.

Lucy Toone [22:21 - 22:22]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [22:23 - 22:42]: Do you see what I mean? It was so, I mean, I'm intrigued you're still doing your fulfillment and I, and I hope you continue to do it. I think it's going to be one of those things that will really make a big difference for you guys going forward, especially in the niche that you're in. As much as you have a love hate relationship with it.

Lucy Toone [22:42 - 23:25]: Yeah, it's. It's a difficult. It's a different type of business. Like, you know, when you blend the two and we do, you know, it's all in one office. It's different, you know, you've got different brains working around one another. So setting some boundaries in that has been a bit of a challenge. But yeah, I try not to look at it too much because it, it can become extremely distracting. I've tried to delegate. I can be, listen, control freak, which I didn't realize I was recent. My sister works for me now and she's quite honest. So I'm hearing the truths. Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [23:25 - 23:30]: Which is going down very well. Very well. I would imagine it very well. I like, I like.

Lucy Toone [23:30 - 23:36]: I'm very black and white. So I. There's no time for. There's no time for bullshit.

Matt Edmundson [23:36 - 24:50]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just tell it like it is. Let's get on with it. So, I mean, you've built. I mean, obviously you've got a really great company and it's working really well. You know, we were talking before we hit the record button on the front page of your website. On the homepage you've got a picture of Stacy Solomon who's a celebrity here in the uk. For those outside of the UK might not know my why. My wife loves her TV show. You know the one where she tidies up people's houses. I can't remember what it's called? Neither can I. Yeah, it's just. It just. Yeah, something like that. Yes. It's a real fascinating show, isn't it? And she's wearing a piece of your jewelry on her wedding. I'm assuming it's her wedding day with the way that, you know, her and her husband are dressed up. It's not every day a tire she's wearing, let's put it that way. And then obviously you can buy that bracelet. So you've obviously got celebrities using your product and. And singing your praises. So what do you attribute your growth to? How did you go from selling to a pub called the Waverly when no one bought a bracelet to having a team, which also now includes your sister doing your own fulfillment and all of that good stuff?

Lucy Toone [24:51 - 28:06]: It's a great question. It's a question that we're asking a lot at the moment. Again, I think it comes back to how people purchase and what feeling you've allowed them to feel for them to give you that investment, which is what it is. Whether it be a five pound. You know, people go and buy from Starbucks and spending six pounds on a coffee, it's like there's something you're making them feel for them to give up six quicks. That's not, you know, I refuse. I literally refuse not buying Starbucks. I hate it. And I'm like, no, it contributes to the community, but people feel there's a reason why they purchase from you. And when it came to the early days, I think a lot of people purchase from us because of me. And without, you know, blowing my own trumpet, I was constantly showing up to an audience that at the time didn't exist yet. And I was explaining why I was doing things, the reason why I've designed it like this, what I like, how I would style it, asking for people's opinions, really involving, I guess the community around me. Going to, at the time was going to a lot of beauty salons, which made a lot of sense for the audience that we were trying to target. And when it came to, you know, the real big thing of growth for us was Stacy. But that only happened because we shouted about it. So she never actually met, she never actually tagged us. It wasn't like a paid collaboration like she has done since with another jewelry brand, a very big jewelry brand. Unlike that, which was a paid collaboration, she worked with us because, well, she bought from us. So that's the difference. And we shared that story and used social media to kind of, you know, tell the story of why she bought from us because it's very easy to go, okay, there's a picture of Stacey Solomon wearing a freshwater bracelet that I can hardly see on the picture. You know, it's the front page of the okay. Scene. Only I knew that anyone else reading the magazine wouldn't have known. But the relevance of why it was so impactful for her to wear this bracelet is a story that we told and we didn't stop telling for weeks and weeks and weeks over the process of those photos going out, which is what built traction. It's why people discovered us, is because we were like, well, this is why she's wearing it. Because the freshwater pearl, you know, historically has this association to weddings and you know, the quality of this is perfect fit for this because of it being such a extravagant day. And this is how you're going to feel when you unbox it because we're going to show you a video of what it looks like when you unbox it. We're going to show you how it looks being made and that's going to make you feel like this because it's so.

Matt Edmundson [28:06 - 28:06]: Yeah.

Lucy Toone [28:07 - 29:39]: So custom. So I think quite literally oversharing every single detail of the journey of the business connecting to like minded people like Stacy. Because you know, I'm sure there's a reason why your wife loves Stacy and it's probably not because it's probably because of her personality and it's. And she's a relatable person. So that's kind of the core for me, working with people who create a audience or resonate to an audience not because they aspire to be like her, but because they've been vulnerable enough to allow you to relate to her. And that for me is like, that's how you grow a business, whether that be an E commerce or an in person. If you create a space where people can see you've been vulnerable and they allow you, allowing them to come in and be like, it's okay, you can be part of this with me. Then they're like more open to being part of that. Well, that's how I feel about it anyway because I don't know, I've been again, it's kind of what I was saying about I hate shopping. And a lot of the reason is I don't feel like I can go into a shop and just have a chat and be like, oh, I've really struggled to find a pair of jeans. Like, is that, you know, is that normal? Do you get, you know, that thing doesn't really happen. You Normally just get ignored, which is concerning for anyone that has a, you know, a story.

Matt Edmundson [29:41 - 30:00]: Yeah, it is. I could wax lyrical about that all day long, to be honest with you. But I'm really curious. Lucy, you said something which I'd love to dig into a little bit more. You said you consistently showed up for an audience that didn't yet exist. What do you mean by that?

Lucy Toone [30:03 - 30:17]: What I mean is I decided that kind of. Again, luxury of naivety, I think I.

Matt Edmundson [30:18 - 30:19]: I love that phrase.

Lucy Toone [30:19 - 32:42]: Yeah, I. I wanted. It's very lonely, you know, creating a brand and a business and I think even more so at that age. I was working, you know, seven days a week, 12 hours a day from sheer enjoyment of doing what I was doing. But it's extremely lonely. So it was almost like an outlet for me to tell everyone what I'm up to. And I. Through Instagram in particular, I didn't really do TikTok until like, post Covid. I wasn't like a TikTok brand, but I would overshare the whole experience, from the highs and the lows to, you know, what I had for lunch, how I'm feeling today, to the point of, look at me wearing, you know, I've just got out of bed, I've got bed hair and people just like seeing it. And that was those. That content was what people resonated to. Because I wasn't pretending to be something that I wasn't, which must be really hard to do constantly as well. Like, that wasn't something that I was going to be able to consistently do, but I could consistently tell the truth. Yes, that, you know, that's all I knew. And I guess throughout the journey of Tom and, you know, it has its. Had its lulls and you get to points when you're like, oh, I don't know who I am anymore. And I never feel. I think that will always happen as you progress through life. But something that I've always done is just been transparent and share the behind the scenes, the good and the bad. And with the audience coming, people follow you because your journey, not because of your product, I don't think. I think the product is going to evolve and it's going to change. And whether we sell, you know, insulated mugs or T shirts, whatever it may be, the product is just existing because the brand is sharing a story that you resonate to, which inevitably allows you to purchase. And that's. Yeah, I guess that's just how I feel because I would choose a brand over buying something from Amazon which you can do easily. There's so many products that you can buy on Amazon now.

Matt Edmundson [32:43 - 32:43]: Yeah.

Lucy Toone [32:43 - 32:49]: Because they make me feel away. That's. That's the only reason I purchased from a brand.

Matt Edmundson [32:50 - 33:30]: Yeah. And actually if I think about the brands that I purchased from again and again, where I've become, I'm not a brand ambassador, but where I've become a fan, Jamie and I become what I would term a repeat customer, you know, a high value customer in some respects. It's. There's a quality product. I know the product is going to deliver on what I need it to do at that point in time, but there's a story behind it and they've drawn me into that story and in some cases have drawn me into a community. And I think it's quite remarkable when people can do that. And it's interesting you did it through Instagram. If you were starting today, would you do the same thing again?

Lucy Toone [33:31 - 35:02]: I think you do all of it. You do both. Like I would have. I definitely still do an Instagram. I like. I like both Instagram and Tick Tock. I. It's very like they are very different platforms. I think. Like, I'm trying to think music 2019 must have still been musically ticked off. I think potentially it was transitioning over to Tick Tock, but it's different quality of content. I think probably what I was doing back in 2019 made more sense on TikTok, which maybe was why it stood out more then because it wasn't, you know, it wasn't probably the most aesthetically pleasing content, which I don't promise ever to anyone because I struggle with that one. But community is what for me develops a brand. And if you want, for me, I want something to outlive me. And it's not going to come from creating a product that's so incredible. It overshadows everything else on the market for me. It's developing this brand that creates a community that feels so strongly about what we stand for and, and they resonate so much to what we do.

Matt Edmundson [35:05 - 35:05]: That.

Lucy Toone [35:05 - 35:13]: They just buy from us because like we. They wouldn't even think about buying from anyone else.

Matt Edmundson [35:13 - 35:14]: Yeah.

Lucy Toone [35:14 - 35:18]: You know, they're buying from a friend, they're buying from people that they know.

Matt Edmundson [35:18 - 35:38]: Yeah, yeah. That's powerful. That's really good. And it's the secret of many people's success, I think in it, and I'm curious, you meant you sort of alluded to one or two. Lucy, as you were chatting, what's been the biggest challenge of building this brand, of building Tom jewelry for you.

Lucy Toone [35:41 - 38:53]: Biggest challenge. I think the biggest challenge I've faced personally whilst building it is understanding that you choose how you make money when you start a business. And so, for example, I don't know, for example, Tom is an E commerce business, but I don't see it as an E commerce business and I don't want it to fully be E commerce, but I want it to use online to function anyway. That's a long story. But for example, I went down a road, I went down a road like 12 months ago where it became very kind of, you know, make a lot of sales, heavy discounts, sample to every creator on TikTok Shop. And it was like this intense, saturated experience of. And it lacks in any feeling for me, any value from it for me or the brand. And it was like, quick, quick, quick, sell, sell, sell. And it just made me, it completely threw me off and I didn't expect to feel like this and it felt really uncomfortable and like all my values just disappeared and I kind of pulled the plug on it quite quickly, which had a really big impact on us financially. So I guess what I'm saying the challenge was that I have felt in the last five years is become, you know, there's one thing starting a brand and making money, but there's one thing starting a brand and making money in a way that fuels you as a human being to keep doing it for the rest of your life or doing it for a long amount of time. And I think five years is a long time, but five years is an even longer time when you're going from 19 to, you know, 24. Like, I completely like myself had, I hadn't developed myself. So like Lucy's values hadn't been developed, but Tom's values had. So I kind of took a step back a little bit and was like, well, who am I and what do I want from this? You know, why did I start this? And going back to, you know, the questions that you asked me at the beginning about Tom and the people side of things and that was the biggest challenge, not losing myself and allowing us to kind of go, well, okay, we're, we might have a financial hit, but I'd rather that than completely build something that's a monster. And I end up despising, resenting, which has taken a long time to get, you know, comfortable even saying that, to be totally honest.

Matt Edmundson [38:54 - 41:12]: Well, if I, if I can reply without sounding condescending, I think it's incredibly brave to do. And I think having seen a lot of businesses over the years come and Go, Lucy. And having been involved in business having and coaching, consulting with a whole bunch of businesses, the ability to stick with something that resonates with who you are and not get lost in it is really hard. And to be able to recognize that and to actually take the hit and pull it back on that, I think that there comes a point every now and again, there comes these sort of inflection points where you're, in effect, you're tested on that ideology. And I remember, I think I've mentioned this before on the podcast. When we first started out, we had this little. This little web business. We were making next to no money, you know, and I was recently. I think I'd recently become a dad, you know, and we had young. Either a young child or maybe. No, I think it was just one. We just had one young kid at the time. And we're doing websites. We had no money coming in. And I'm sitting there thinking, how in the world are we going to pay the bills? You know, all those sorts of things you do. And someone came knocking on the door, in essence, and said, I need a really big website. And I'm like, oh, all my prayers have been answered. And the guy that knocks on the door wanted me to write a porn site. And I'm like. And there's this point where part of you is like, I need the money, but the other side of you is, but that's not who I am. That's not my values. And the question is, which. Which side is going to win? Right? Is it the desire for money or is it the desire to stay true to what you believe to be wholesome and right? And so one of. In some respects, I say it was one of the hardest things I ever had to do. But in some respects, it was also one of the easiest things I ever had to do when I turned the client down and said, I'm really sorry, dude, that's not for me. You need to go somewhere else. And I think that does come. These points where you are tested on that. And so it's refreshing to hear, actually, that that's what you guys did. What does.

Lucy Toone [41:12 - 42:00]: Selling your soul a little bit, I think, you know, you've got to be some things that you can do. I think if you've got the right people around you to support, maybe it's not you can't do everything that makes you feel amazing all the time. Like, you can't. But if you don't have the resources around you or the people to support, make sure that you get through this and your values stay intact. I think it's just quite difficult to go through that journey and expect to come out the other end unaffected. And like that. That for me was like, what's the value in that?

Matt Edmundson [42:01 - 42:01]: Yeah.

Lucy Toone [42:02 - 42:15]: So, yeah, that's really interesting that you did. You didn't, you know, do it, because I get it. It's like, you know, it is the selling of the soul to. It is tomorrow, isn't it?

Matt Edmundson [42:15 - 42:25]: It is. And I. And for me, at the time, I was also. I mean, I had young kids and I'm like, I would look at them over nighttime and go, I don't know how I'm going to feed you, but I know that when you're older, I want you to feel proud.

Lucy Toone [42:25 - 42:26]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [42:26 - 43:49]: I mean, of what dad did. And I. And I just thought if I did the porn site, there's no way. Right. Just. I just. I couldn't get my head around how that would work. And so you're right. I think there has to be that element of people around you and you just going, is this something that I'm proud of? Am I actually making. I was talking to some guys with this. Getting a bit deep, this. Lucy, I'm living this. I was talking to some chaps the other day who had made colossal amounts of money and are actually making colossal amounts of money in their business and just talking about wealth, the democratization of wealth, how wealth is spent and all that sort of stuff and how they view it and how, you know, this one chap, he owned all the supercars and all that sort of stuff. And I'm kind of like, this is really interesting because there needs to be a further conversation about the responsibility of wealth. You know, you've got this wealth and you can squander it or you can be responsible with it. And I think those kind of conversations need to happen more and more, if I'm honest with you. Especially if the rich divide gets bigger. You know, it's one of those. And I love how you were talking about not buying from Amazon, but, you know, let's go support the community kind of thing. Don't buy from Starbucks, buy from someone local. And I get the arguments both ways. I do. And I think it's good to have that value set.

Lucy Toone [43:49 - 45:07]: Oh, I buy from Amazon, but I buy from Amazon when, like, say I'm buying a product. So for example, I just got a hand. The girls wanted this hands free content thing you wrap around your neck and it's like, you know, really cool tool. But for me, like, there was no it's not being advertised to me anywhere that they're doing any better than what Amazon or whatever company for Amazon. You know, there's a lot of businesses, small businesses that Amazon are supporting, but there's, there's this girl, Emma, who she does embroidery jumpers and like T shirts and stuff. And I, I, I would buy from her over Amazon from getting embroidered and it would cost probably like 50% more buying from her than Amazon. But the reason I buy from her is because she so deeply cares about the product she makes. She documents every process. She shows the ups, the downs, you know, the struggles, the highs, her team. I'm just like, it's worth, I know how much love that gets, you know. So again, selfishly, I choose to buy from her because I feel better from spending the money.

Matt Edmundson [45:07 - 45:25]: Yeah, yeah. It works both ways, right? That's the whole thing about buying craftsmanship products. I think it does work both ways. What does the future look like? What's the big, what's the big hope? Fast forward five years. What do when we have a, you know, another conversation in five years. Where's Lucy at? Where's Tom at?

Lucy Toone [45:28 - 45:46]: To have. So for me, the future is to have a brand that women all over the country, I don't really care about the rest of the world. I'm quite interested in just the UK to be honest.

Matt Edmundson [45:46 - 45:47]: Yeah.

Lucy Toone [45:48 - 46:21]: All over the country. Can not only shop from, but financially benefit from being part of us as well. So, yeah, I, we're in the, we're in the midst of building this ambassador type model which is give too much away. But it's kind of the plan is to be the Tropics meets Build a Bear.

Matt Edmundson [46:21 - 46:22]: Right.

Lucy Toone [46:22 - 46:27]: In a jewelry form. That's the goal for me.

Matt Edmundson [46:27 - 46:53]: Fantastic. So that's a really good analogy too. I understand what you mean when you say to be the Tropics and the Build a Bear in jewelry form. I think that's a very good way of describing it. Yeah, very, very good way of describing it. Oh, brilliant, Lucy. Listen, before we go, I need a question from you. This is where I ask you for a question. I will take said question and answer over on my social media. So what is your question for me, Lucy?

Lucy Toone [46:55 - 47:17]: What? I did have one, but I forgot what it was. Buying presents. What? So like, what are your favorite brands to buy from? Or what's your favorite brand to buy from for your, for your wife in particular?

Matt Edmundson [47:18 - 47:19]: My favorite brand.

Lucy Toone [47:20 - 47:24]: What's the present? Where's brands?

Matt Edmundson [47:24 - 47:26]: Okay, okay, very good question.

Lucy Toone [47:27 - 47:32]: I need that information. That data is something I need. So Selfish question.

Matt Edmundson [47:34 - 48:04]: Doing a bit of market research at the same time. I like that. Multitasking all the way there. If you want to know how I'm gonna answer Lucy's question, then come follow me on social media, both on Instagram or LinkedIn and I will post the answer there at some point. Point shortly, no doubt. Lucy, listen, it's been wonderful chatting to you. Loved hearing your heart, loved hearing your story. What's the best way for people to connect with you to find out more about what's going on if they want to do that. Where should we go?

Lucy Toone [48:04 - 48:17]: So Tom Jewelry on all socials or lucy toon? Both. LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok. I'm everywhere. Just. Just my name or Tom's name and it's Tom.

Matt Edmundson [48:18 - 48:27]: T O M M. And it's tuned T O O N E because everything's spelled differently. Yeah, as you would maybe expect.

Lucy Toone [48:29 - 48:31]: Nothing simple here, Matt.

Matt Edmundson [48:33 - 49:18]: It's not necessarily whether it's simple or not, is it? But it's distinctive, Lucy. Distinctive I like, maybe a better word. Listen, Lucy, genuinely lovely to chat to you and really appreciate you coming on sharing what's going on. We'll have to get you on at some point again in the future to find out where things are up to. But yeah, I'm intrigued by what you're doing on Instagram. So, you know, definitely go follow what Lucy's doing and the guys are doing over there. If you want to find out more, we will of course link to Lucy and to Tom Jewelry in the show notes. They'll be on your podcast app or in your inbox if you're on the newsletter or on our website if you just happen to be swinging on by. But Lucy, thank you so, so much.

Lucy Toone [49:18 - 49:21]: Thank you, Matt. Thanks for everyone listening.

Matt Edmundson [49:21 - 50:16]: That's brilliant. What a great conversation. Now be sure to follow the e commerce podcasts wherever you get your podcasts from because we've got some more great conversations lined up. I don't want you to miss any of them. And in case no one has told you yet today, let me be the first. You are awesome. Yes, you are created awesome. It's just a burden you have to bear. Lucy has to bear it. I have to bear it. You've got to bear it as well. Now, the E commerce podcast is produced by podjunction. You can find the entire archive of episodes on your favorite podcast app. The theme music was written by Josh Edmondson. And as I mentioned, if you'd like to read the transcript, the show notes, all of those things, head over to the website, ecommercepodcast.net where, incidentally, you can also sign up to the newsletter. But that's it from me. That's it from Lucy. Thank you so much for joining us. Have a fantastic week wherever you are in the world. I'll see you next time. Bye for now.