How to 10x Your Investment With an Agency Partner | Chase Clymer

Matt Edmundson

Well good evening and welcome to the eCommerce podcast with me, Matt Edmundson. Now this is my little preamble section. Oh yes, where I get to tell you what is actually going on, we are doing a live recording of the eCommerce podcast with our special guest tonight, Chase, we're gonna have a fantastic conversation. He's such a cool guy, Chase. And so we're gonna get into that in just a few minutes time. But this is just where I just let you know, this is a live recording, and you get to watch the live recording of the podcast, which is cool news, right? So you get to see it first, at the end of the live stream, or the end of the podcast recording, same thing, we're going to talk about this week's giveaway, so make sure you stay tuned for that because it is super cool, hyper valuable from Chase, you're not gonna want to miss it, that's for sure. And you're not gonna want to miss the conversation, because I have a feeling that today's conversation is going to be something quite unique and fun. And so yeah, we're gonna get into all of that. But this is just me letting you know what's going to be happening. We are going to be recording the podcast live. So I'm gonna play another intro. And then I'm going to introduce the podcast, just so you know what's going on. I will see you on the other side. So stay with us, as we're going to do the live recording starting now.

Sadaf Beynon

Welcome to the e commerce podcast with Matt Edmundson, a show that brings you regular interviews, tips and tools for building your business online.

Matt Edmundson

Well, hello and welcome to the eCommerce podcast with me your host Matt Edmundson is great to hear great, you're listening to this show. Whether you are just starting out or whether like me, you've been around for a while in eCommerce. The goal here of the show of what we're trying to do is simply to help you grow your e commerce and digital businesses. That's it simple as it gets, right? And to do that, the winning formula that we have here at the eCommerce podcast is to chat to amazing people literally from all over the world about the topic of eCommerce and ask them all kinds of questions about what they know and how it's going to help us develop I own online businesses, I try and have the conversations that you would have, if you got to sit down and have a cup of coffee with them. That's how we do it. This kind of chat is kind of informal. But it's good value stuff, because I like to dig into their story and learn the principles that can help us start and adapt and grow our own online businesses. So if you enjoy the show, if you're regular, I would appreciate it if you would like it. If you're watching online, or if you're, if you're listening to the audio version, why not give us a thumbs up over there as well share it with your friends do all the usual stuff. It just helps us keep putting the show out there helps us deliver all this amazing content, which is great. So appreciate you doing that. Now, on this week's eCommerce podcast, we are talking about all things ... drumroll please ... agency that's right. Agencies. Yes, at some point in your eCommerce career, you are going to have to deal with agencies love them or hate them, right, you're gonna have to deal with them. Now, whether that's a design agency, a social media agency, an ad agency, there are agencies literally for everything out there, and you're going to have to deal with them as your business grows in one form or another. So the question is, how do you know which agency to work with? That's the million dollar question, that's for sure. And how do you get the most out of them? Right? Because let's face it, on the surface, at least, agencies are a significant investment. So we want to make sure that we get it right. And that is what today's show is all about. We are going to talk with agency owner and eCommerce expert Chase Clymer about this very topic. Chase, if you didn't already know is the host of the honest, honest, honest, it's really hard say - he's the host of the Honest eCommerce podcast. I just put my teeth back in there. And so you know, if you don't if you don't already listen to the show, make sure you do. Its great show all about eCommerce. So he and he's definitely the guy to talk to about this, right? He knows about eCommerce he knows about agency. Oh, yes, I've picked him up enough. So I think grab your notebooks. Get ready for this as we're going to bring him onto the show. And just to say before we do bring him onto the show. All of the notes from today's show will be available as a free download on our website, just head on over to eCommercepodcast.net/63 to download them okay, in the transcripts and all the links, everything's going to be on that URL. So just go to eCommercepodcast.net/63. And you will be able to access those for free. Now, all of that said, drumroll please. Let's without any further ado, let's just bring on today's guest, Chase. Chase. Great to see you. Great. Great to have you here. Thanks for joining us today.

Chase Clymer

Oh yeah, absolutely. Thank you for having me.

Matt Edmundson

Oh, no problem. No problem. Now, Chase, listen, the title of today's podcast right is how to 10x your investment with an agency partner. Right? Which I think is such a cool title. We were talking about this oops, making a mess. We were talking about this before we came live on air. This is a great title that we're gonna have some good fun with. But how long have you, how long have you been around agency? How long have you been involved with agency?

Chase Clymer

Yeah, absolutely. Our agency has been around now for six years. Before that I had been freelancing in digital for probably 10 years prior to that. So I've just been in this game for for quite some time. And as I got older, kind of in more mature with this profession, I got closer and closer to the money, as they say so I started to learn. Feel like that's something when you're younger and you're a freelancer, you just you have a price. And that's that as you get older, you get faster and our our hourly rates start to go away, and you start to understand value pricing. So anyways, as I got older, I kind of got closer to the money. No, you knew where the things were kind of ROI driven efforts, like marketing and sales and advertising. But yeah, now we're here and just loving life living in the eCommerce world specifically, you know, only doing Shopify stuff these days building amazing sales machines for our clients.

Matt Edmundson

Fantastic. So yeah, I mean, and again, we're talking about this affair your agency you're saying you guys are doing super well at the moment. I mean, it's the right climate, isn't it for digital so you're you're snowed under with with a whole bunch of stuff coming in. Is that right?

Chase Clymer

Well, yeah, but you know, Matt, if someone that listening wants to work with us, like I'd love to talk to you, but we are very we are very busy. Which is, you know, it goes to show that we do know what we do. But yeah, I was I was telling Matt before this, we've probably got the next two months lined up with onboarding new clients, and it's, it's a fun problem to have.

Matt Edmundson

Yeah, yeah, it's a great problem to have. And actually, we will get into the whole agency thing here. But for me, one of the signs of a good agency is how busy they are, you know, and how much of a queue not a backlog, but just I mean, how just how busy they are as an agency, because a lot of people

Chase Clymer

Well, yeah, there's that. And there's also if they don't have a queue, and they can take you right away, that should be a red flag, you know what I mean? So we do not onboard two clients at once, period. Like we only onboard one client once, that usually takes about two weeks. And then we can do the next client and we tell everybody the order, and we say, hey, it might go a little bit faster, maybe it'll be a week earlier. But we set expectations from from day one. Because when discovery is is so important, learning your clients challenges and the goals that they really want to do. And having so many conversations asking a lot of questions getting so much clarity, you'll get confused, if you're having those same similar conversations with another brand, and then you'll your wires way across and it's just a bad, a bad thing. So we we kind of instilled that process last year of we're not doing two at once ever again, only one only one we call our we call our Discovery's strategy Sprint's only one strategy sprint at a time. And, you know, that's kind of that helps to segment things and kind of arch things along. And it also helps like beyond that, you know, once you get down with that, usually going into design, so it helps to keep things from piling up in creating bottlenecks within the business with our resources.

Matt Edmundson

Yeah, no, that's, that's a really interesting point. Actually, I kind of, the thing that I picture in my head, as you're talking is, you know, when you're in a new city, and you're looking for a place to eat, the last place you go and eat is the empty restaurant, do you know what I mean? Why is no one else eating? And there is always a question in my head, I'm going to go and, and stand in the queue where everybody is waiting to get in. Because obviously, there's a reason why that I don't know about that people are waiting to get in there. So it's interesting, you say that, you know, if the agency can take you straight away, that should be a bit of a red flag? Is it is it as simple as it's the same principle as the empty restaurant? Is that why you say that?

Chase Clymer

I would say so. But more it's about, you know, unless they have a reason behind it, you know, if we're just ending a project, and we didn't have a sprint on the calendar, it's like, you know, we honestly could probably get you in next week. But you know, if, if they're like, yeah, let's get started right away, you know, let's do it. Well, you know, I just, I would also I would just, I guess it goes to the ask the capacity question like, Who else are you working with? How many clients do you take on at a time? What's a, you know, that can help you kind of really understand the level of service that you're going to get?

Matt Edmundson

Yeah. So and the other thing you mentioned, is this whole idea of you set expectations early, right. So we onboard one client at a time, it takes about two weeks, it couldn't be quicker, but we think this will be your you know, your date, there are thereabouts. And I, again, just pulling this out, I guess if I was to analyse my, my eCommerce career, I'm working with agencies or as an agency owner working with clients, the one thing that you come back to time and time again, where things have fallen down is an unclear expectations. Is that is that right? Is that what you find?

Chase Clymer

The number one place that you have problems with any relationship is unclear communication. So this isn't even just agency stuff. This is just human communication is the root of all issues and problems. If you can't communicate, clearly, you're gonna have issues. So now when you put money on that you put like a bunch of people's time and energy and effort on top of that it compounds things. And the biggest blow ups can usually would have been resolved if there was better, more honest discovery.

Matt Edmundson

Yeah. Yeah. That's very good. Very, very good. So and again, if you're listening, you know, be making notes of all this sort of stuff. You know, clarify expectations be really clear. We'll get into all of this a little bit more. So I'm curious. You know, what stage right? Do people usually come to you? Chase right? So if I'm, if I'm in the eCommerce, we're what what, what's the typical stage that someone comes to you? Is it a start-up? Is it something that's been around a little while? Is it a fast growing business? What what kind of clients come knocking on your door?

Chase Clymer

That's a great question. And these days, it's different than when we were younger, to be completely honest. When we were younger, you know, and this is probably the same with most consultants and agencies, we're taking kind of whatever was coming through the door, we're trying everything learning what we like to do the best learning what we kind of wanted to pass on in the future. Um, you know, these days the team has grown. We've got a very, very smart team and smart people are expensive, so we can't afford actually to take on startups anymore. The budgets just aren't there. So these days, we're typically working with brands that are around a million dollars or more in revenue per year. And usually helping them kind of make a lot more than that, let's be honest. But the eight different for more of an avatar perspective of what we do is specifically direct to consumer brands, no drop shipping, specifically, you know, physical goods is 90% of our clients. But funny enough, we've been doing a lot of digital stuff lately. So it's been a fun little thing to get into. But you know, it's smaller, smaller teams, we're usually handling the technical side of things, and they're focused on product and brand. It's a very, very good way to to diversify what we do. But you know, when we say we make sales machines, like, at the end of the day, we're making sweet websites, right? Like, that's the thing you get, but that's not what we're selling. And that's not actually what you're getting, you're getting the years of strategy, you're getting all of our playbook to take your average order value and take it through the roof, like take your conversion rate and make it as best as you possibly can. Because without those two numbers being a sweet spot, you're it doesn't matter how sweet your Facebook ads are, if you're always in the red from your conversion rate, like you're going to go out bankrupt eventually.

Matt Edmundson

Yeah, yeah. Well, again, just, I'm just gonna echo and underline some of the things that you say as I, as I I tend to make notes as we go along. And I thought was a really interesting comment that you said there that smart people are expensive. And this is this is something which is become so true in the digital world, actually, the better the better the people or the more competent the people, the more you've got to pay them. And that's becoming very, very true in this industry. So cast your mind back right to when you were just starting out as an agency, you would take, you know, you're on or whoever I mean, you did you mean the whoever came knocking on your door and you try different things? What was some of that, because I'm imagining at that stage, a lot of people come in to you work start-ups and people with low budgets, right, that the million dollar guy doesn't walk through the door straightaway, usually. So you normally get the start-ups with the, you know, the dollar budget, basically. So describe to me what that was like, and some of the some of the things that you discovered along the way about working with start-ups with the low budgets.

Chase Clymer

Um, this might be more of a agency to agency remark, but the less zeros on the check, the more annoying the project will be.

Matt Edmundson

That's brilliant.

Chase Clymer

Yep. But I mean, dude, we had some cool clients, man, we had some cool projects going on back then. But holy, they got a steal of a deal. When we got started, you know, we quickly learned our value quickly. You know, and this kind of goes back to what I was saying earlier about, people don't understand their value. You know, you got to tie your value to results. And these days, our results speak for themselves, like we are, if you are making a million dollars a year, and we can kind of see we can see the writing on the wall, when we start looking your data to be like, yeah, we can make another million dollars like easily. Like, it's that's how clear we can see that in the data these days. With what we're doing back then we didn't like have that, that foresight, and that, that we didn't know exactly what to look for. And we were trying a bunch of things like, you know, for example, we were doing work on WordPress and Magento. Back then, and, you know, quickly realised, yeah, I don't want to do that anymore. And we just went straight straight to Shopify, specifically. We were trying some, you know, we didn't like photography, like we did some like content creation back in the original days. And these days, we won't touch that. So I guess one thing that happens with an agency or consultant over time is they say no to like, basically everything. They just the more you say, No, the better you can be at the things that you want to do. And the more those opportunities come to light.

Matt Edmundson

Yeah, no, it's very good. I like that the less the less the amount zeroes and more and more annoying. They were. But what are what are some of the misconceptions that you find that customers have about agency, they kind of, you know, they call through the door, you can see them call you straight away. It's like, right, we need to address this this snd this what are what are those misconceptions you feel like people have.

Chase Clymer

if you have no sales, an agency isn't going to fix that for you. Just period.

Matt Edmundson

Okay. I like that.

Chase Clymer

I mean, look, no agency, I there's probably someone out there that can do this. But I have yet to meet someone that will help you find product market fit. And if they will, they are expensive, because that is an expensive problem. And product market fit is what makes or breaks businesses. Now. What that means is, you have launched a brand, you've got a product and you have zero sales and you're going to agencies to try to make you get sales. There's a whole bunch of stuff that needs to happen before an agency can really do their stuff. Agencies really shine at taking good stuff and making it better. Taking, you know, the zero to one stuff is the hardest stuff. And, you know, for a startups budget, I don't think there is a person out there that will help you go from zero to one. I think that is something that you need to do on yourself, you need to take every dollar that you invest in an agency at that stage and invest into yourself in your own education, and learning these things, and talking to your customers and talking to potential customers, and learning everything you can about making the best product and the best offer that you can to get those initial round of sales. Because an agency just can't do it. Like that's the expectation that an agency will will change your business and will create sales for you out of thin air is just the wrong expectation.

Matt Edmundson

Yeah, yeah. This is a classic one, isn't it? It's just

Chase Clymer

Yeah, it's people. And then that goes back to the whole concept of bad engagements is like people are putting all of their faith into this entity, this agency, this consultant this freelancer to change their business to save their career to save their baby. Like, that's, that's so much stress. And that's such a annoying situation they put yourself into is you don't want to do that, as an agency don't take on clients like that. Or as a as someone out there. Don't put anyone in a position like that. Because it's not Yeah, it's not their thing to do. You're one of 12 people they're probably working with, they can't give it the time of day that it really needs.

Matt Edmundson

Yeah. That's, that's, that's very good advice. I find it I find it fascinating. That whole concept really, if you maybe let me ask you, this, going back to the startup thing, we'll come back to the misconceptions in a minute. But just going back to the startup thing, right. I know people listening to this show are people you know, a number of our listeners are setting up an eCommerce website. That's kind of where they're at. Right?

Chase Clymer

Oh, absolutely.

Matt Edmundson

Imagine, you know, your I don't know your cousin, your brother, your, your mom comes to you and says, Listen, I've got this great idea, right? I'm going to sell lawnmowers online. What? What do they do? I mean, you talked about self invest, getting yourself from zero to one is that your advice is like, Okay, I'm gonna point you in the right direction. Go figure it out.

Chase Clymer

Kinda, and I think so let me go back and say that I'm not saying that you can't do it, like you absolutely can do it. That's how these businesses work and create, and they figure it out. And that's how our clients end up coming to us is because they have figured it out on their own. You need to learn all these things first, so you can communicate with them appropriately with any sort of person that you hire, like down the line. The number one thing you can do, though, when you want to start a business is invest in the education yourself, you need to understand the basics of a business, the basis of eCommerce is you have a product, and you can sell it online. That's that's the basics, right? Let's go a little bit further than that is how are you going to sell it, you have to have an appealing offer. And you need to have an audience that wants to buy that offer. So basically, you want to sell these lawn mowers, right. And, you know, my brother comes to me and says, I want to sell lawn mower, Chase, what should I do? I'm not going to give him you know, $100,000 website and say you should be set now. Because he doesn't have an audience, like that doesn't matter. You can have the nicest website in the world with all of the widgets and whatnots to make it like do the cool stuff. But if no one's going to that website, if no one has a clue what the brand is, that doesn't matter. So you're starting your company right now everyone listening, you got your product idea, you've got some you know, you got some samples, all that cool stuff. Perfect. Don't spend $1 on a web design, go to Shopify, use a free theme, you can get that thing off the ground up to 1000s of dollars a month, I've seen a million dollar website on debut which is sacrifice free theme, right? Like you don't need to invest that early into a custom thing. Now go there, do that. First thing you should do is you should focus on finding customers that like or finding potential customers, where are they hanging out forums, you know, Facebook groups are an amazing way to do that. Talk to influencers that you think are within what you need to do. Figure that out, find you know, figure out a content strategy that works that resonates with those types of people around your product. And just work on, which is the most grindy thing in the world. But like work on things that don't scale, like literally have conversations with people until they buy it from you if you think that they need it. Just keep doing that stuff. You're gonna learn so much more stuff about your product that an agency won't a do that much work for you or be like, they don't care as much to be honest, like this is this is the stuff that doesn't scale and you have to do it. And this is how you build a great brand. I think there's a bunch I have a bunch of interviews on my podcast with founders and I'd highly suggest checking some of those out. One that comes to mind is Finley Hats. He talked about his most unscalable thing in the world. He's he said he would respond to every single comment on every one of their channels. Every email, didn't matter if it was nice or not. He would reply to everybody for the first three years of their business and now they have this the most rock solid community of people that enjoy their products and all the content that they create. But you know, that's how you go from zero to one. Now, once you've done that, now you engage an agency, and they're gonna take you from one to two, and it's gonna be an awesome ride.

Matt Edmundson

Yeah, no, very good. Very good. I like that. I like that principle, save your money. If you're just starting out, figure it out yourself, and get yourself from zero to one. And I like I like what you said there. Because if you do that, and you learn these fundamental principles, which is, you know, this is the guy who's responding to the customer emails, he's learning these principles. He understands what Shopify requires, do you no what I mean, all these sort of basic things, when they come talk to you, they're so much more knowledgeable, right? And they can have a much more kind of adult conversation, I suppose about how to get from one to two.

Chase Clymer

Yeah, yeah, you gotta, you got to understand the basics of what's going on to kind of get the business operating to the point where it's, you know, it's got to be turning a profit really, to kind of have an agency be able to really help you. Another thing to kind of, there's the whole wildcard here, though, is like where I said, we don't want to startups that's like kind of a lie. Because there are such things as funded startups or people that have like, done this before. And they they've know what's going on, and they know how it's going to work. You know, there are situations like that where sometimes we, you know, we're taking on projects like that, where it is a brand new brand, but they understand that they have to walk before they run. And they understand that the money isn't going to come as fast or as much as they want it to as fast as they expected it. You know, that's the expectation, right? There's, it's not going to be as fast or as much, you know, or as frequent as you thought.

Matt Edmundson

Yeah, no, that's fair point. I mean, like you say, where I've been around eCommerce for a while, I kind of figured it out a little bit. And we're setting up a couple of new eCommerce businesses as we speak. So but I think I'm in a different position as a startup do you know what I mean, because I've got all that experience. And I've got all of that knowledge. And I you know, there are agencies that we're talking about the websites, but certainly other agencies about, you know, paid media and stuff like that, which we've already forged relationships with, we already understand how that works. And so, no, I get that. I understand that. So let's say I've got from zero to one. Okay. What are some of the things and I kind of I recognise I'm at one, I've been in the trenches a little bit, and I'm like, you know what, I think I need an agency to come help me. What are some of the things what are some of the headlines I need to think about before I even knock on your door?

Chase Clymer

Oh, yeah, absolutely. First and foremost, is you want a specialist, you don't want a generalist. Um, specialists, sometimes come in all shapes and sizes. But if you're, you know, you know, this might sound self serving, but like, if you're a brand on Shopify, and you y ou're, you're seeing the hockey stick, start having you're heading towards a million, like, that's what we do all day long, like, you'd be a perfect fit for us. But if you're on Magento, and you're in the same bucket, like we would be a terrible fit for you, I don't have a clue how Magento works. So make sure that you're working with a partner that's very specific to kind of, you know, either your industry or your vertical or your technology stack, or has similar clients with good results. That's what you should be looking for. What you shouldn't be looking for is an agency that's like, we do WordPress, Shopify, Wix. You know, we also do photo shoots, and we do P. Like, that would probably not be the good engagement. Just because if, you know, they can't create efficiencies around any of that stuff, they can't create, you know, it just everything we do it's like the same playbook with different brands with different numbers. And this, you know, some of the tactics change a little bit. You know, it's it's awesome to keep doing it over over it, refine it, make it more efficient, make it work better. But you know, if we were taking on different platforms and different types of clients that we started working with lawyers out of nowhere, like that wouldn't work.

Matt Edmundson

Yeah. I'm just I'm just the reason I'm laughing as you're talking is that I can picture the several people straight off the bat that have done this. And it never sort of went well.

Chase Clymer

Oh, yeah. Also, I just this is top of my, I really want to say it, don't work with your friend that knows how to build websites. Don't work with the guy from the bar that does Facebook ads. Actually, don't do business like that with friends. It's it never works out well. And it will sour your relationship just don't do it. Work with strangers because it makes it easier to fire them. Yeah, um, that's, that's some really from the heart advice.

Matt Edmundson

Yeah, that's very, very good. Top Tips there. So get a specialist, not a generalist, search out some specialists in your area. And you've mentioned now Magento a couple of times and I just I just want to take a pause before we carry on the conversation about you know, other things that we need to think about. I want to hit this Magento, Shopify thing because this is a question that keeps coming up a lot. You don't do WordPress, you don't do Wix, you don't do Magento. You focused on Shopify. And actually a few minutes ago, you said if you're starting a business, go to Shopify and set up a Shopify site, why Shopify? Why not Magento?

Chase Clymer

Yeah, that's a great question. So you know, let me caveat this as I'm a Shopify expert, I'm a Shopify partner, I've been featured on a lot of Shopify content, I'm running a course for Shopify right now. I'm very ingrained in there. And I'll tell you, right now, Shopify is not the best tool for many scenarios, and they would agree with it, there are, Shopify is like a tool. It's like a hammer, you know, just having a hammer doesn't mean you can build a house. So like, you still gotta know what to do with the stuff. And you might need a different type of hammer to accomplish what you need, you might need a sledge hammer to do it. So Magento is really good for extremely high skew counts for B2B stuff for insane variant, like manipulation or any sort of like, extremely custom solution Magento is great for, right. But that's more advanced businesses in the ecommerce space, if you're selling a physical product with a couple of variants, you know, even like, there's there's the higher skew count in stores on Shopify, like if you're just selling like, you know, speakers and accessories for like home, home theatre, like Shopify would be great for that if you're selling camera lenses and the caps and the bags like Shopify would be great for that, like, any physical product that you're going to sell that's a pretty straightforward thing, Shopify is going to be perfect for it. And it just takes like out of the box, it's a no brainer, it's easy to set up. Like if you can set up your Facebook page, you can set up a Shopify store on your own. And if you can't maybe rethink ecommerce.

Matt Edmundson

I like that. It's the ecommerce test. Can you set up a Shopify site? Yes or No, no. Maybe don't do ecommerce I'm just just pointing that out. That's funny.

Chase Clymer

But yeah, I, you know, there is a there's a place for all these tools. Shopify is great for selling products online.

Matt Edmundson

Now, brilliant. I'm just curious, you know, I'm always curious to know what people think between the different platforms. And I agree with you, I have to be honest with you, personally, not a fan of Magento. Shopify think is great. And there, there are a whole bunch of reasons for that. But you know, it's my personal view. So I'm always up for listening to other people. Okay, so first principle, the first tip, I suppose was look for specialists, not generalists. What else do I need to think about when I'm when I'm thinking about, you know, going from one to two with an agency,

Chase Clymer

you should have a budget in mind. And even if you weren't educated on it, you need to sit down and think about, what am I willing to part with to see a result in the five to 10x range? You know, what I mean? What can I comfortably do? Because a, any partner worth their salt is gonna ask you that on the first call, they're gonna be like, you have a budget set aside for this? And if you say no, which is nine times out of 10, the answer, we're gonna be like, Okay, well, we're gonna help you find out what your budget is. Because without a budget, there isn't a project. And if you want good results, you are going to be paying for them. Like, that's the name of the game, when you're going from one to two. If you're the type of person that's always looking for a deal, and you always want to negotiate, and you always want to, you know, feel like you got a steal of a deal, and you're going to get the sweetest thing ever, you're going to work with hacks and weird shops that aren't going to give you the results that you really want. And that's a really bad perspective to have with investing in your growth, like, so you know, your Shopify store, or whatever your ecommerce store is, is your number one salesperson. And just think about what you would pay to keep a salesperson on your team that did that type of business for you. And that should just like, blow out any investment budget that you were already thinking about. And, you know, if you're going from one to two to give you like, some realistic numbers, it should be around $100,000. You know what I mean, for the whole kit and caboodle. 200,000 will give you a lot more to do with paid ads and stuff like that on the tail end of it. or less than that will give you probably a quality product. But you'll be missing a lot of the ongoing stuff just like throw numbers out there and set expectations. Why is it so much this is these projects are going to be 16 to 18, like 16 weeks to 18 month engagements, where there's so much strategy involved. They're rebuilding websites from the ground up. When you're at that point, let's talk about rebuilding the websites like why can't I just use a theme off the shelf? It's you we're talking a different world now. Yeah, like using a premium theme from the Shopify ecosystem versus having a theme tailor made for you is the difference between like a Honda and a Ferrari like It's lightning fast. There's no extra BS in there, like it is tailor made to the experience that your customers need.

Matt Edmundson

Oh, okay. So hopefully Chase will be back in a second. It's a really interesting pose that he sort of ended in there. So hopefully, I'm just, I'm just checking actually, it's not my internet connection has gone down. And hopefully it's all working. Okay. He'll be back again soon, I'm sure. So why don't I do this rather than? I don't know. It's quite tempting to salute Chase on like that, but let's do this scene here. until he comes back, and he'll he'll come into my ears, no doubt, but just to re emphasise and a little bit of what Chase was talking about there. Right. So Oh, here we go. Chase is coming back. Let's close that one out. Okay, Chase, if you can hear me, you need to just dial in again. But let me just explain to you what Chase was talking about. Whilst we're Oh, here we go. No, we're good. We're good. Here we go. Let me put Chase back on the screen. There we go.

Chase Clymer

Sorry about that. So where in my rant did a last end off.

Matt Edmundson

So you were talking about how you throwing some figures out there? 100 grand say, you know, is it I think is a good ballpark figure for most things. And you were talking about why that's expensive. So a sort of 16 week to 18 month engagement, you know, you're going to be involved in this project.

Chase Clymer

Yeah. Alright. So let's talk about like, what you get for that your ad, like I kind of talked about earlier is like, okay, you're going to get a website, right. But what goes into that website, you're going to get, obviously a senior senior team of strategists that are going to go in and look at your numbers, right, they're gonna look at like, what is your conversion rate? What are your best selling products? What are the products that we need to bundle together? What are the products that we can offer? Upsells were in the front, like, where in the customer journey? Can we offer these upsells cross sells, and all that jazz, like, there's so much strategy that goes into that, that is going to on the tail end of the project, make you millions of dollars, just that stuff? You know, we're gonna make the user we or any other agency that you work with, like, these prices aren't just specific to us, like, this is the world that we live in, when you're talking with top tier agencies, and you really want to do the thing. You know, they're going to talk about, you know, how are we going to increase the conversion rate? How are we going to get people to go from the homepage of the collection page, the product page, that cart faster, how we're gonna get more stuff in the cart, how are you know, that's increasing the AOV that's increasing the conversion rate, all those things are just technical, and nerdy. And you know, you need a lightning fast website. To do that, you need a design that is not only polished and beautiful, but it's intuitive for the users. So the user experience is to be on point. There's a reason why you trust the look of luxury brands is because they appeal to like those of those that appeals to you, it feels trustworthy, because it is a luxury experience versus, you know, you've been on a website before where like, this is 100% gonna steal my credit cards, like, you got to think about that stuff. Um, all of that goes into it. Yeah, and all in building a beautiful website takes time building a strategic sales machine with these upsells cross sells, you know, these motivated devices on it takes time, and you got to do tastefully people like to buy, they don't like to be sold. And all that stuff takes time, you know, 16 weeks is four months of, you know, and if you have a team of seven working on this website, that's a lot of people working on it, it's a lot of time invested. And the results are gonna be insane. It's gonna be awesome. You know, and then I said on like, the 18 weeks on the tail end and stuff is now you start talking about marketing, talk about paid ads, you're talking about iterating. On that you're talking about, you're talking about a creative. On top of that you're talking about media spend that you had to do to get in front of stuff on Facebook, and Google, you know, there's investments all around. But if you're working with a good partner, they can kind of paint the picture to show you what that investment is going to do for you.

Matt Edmundson

Yeah, it's interesting, listening to you talk because one of the I mean, the title of this week's podcast is how to 10 extra investment with an agency. Right? And you know, this the sort of the numbers that you you mentioned, sort of fit this you talk about, say 100k investment and an extra million dollars in sales? Is that what you as an agency look for you look to 10x your clients investment, and you'll appreciate this is not, you know, exact science, or it's going to be the same every time. But as a general rule of thumb, if I'm going to go to an agency should I be thinking, I hope to get 10x my investment out of these guys.

Chase Clymer

Matt, I'm not lying to you. I did this number thing the other day, this week with a client that we're going to start working with, no joke it was a 100x return. It was what we rejected with like non crazy numbers. It's just they, they weren't doing any marketing and they just had such strong brand appeal and such a high AOV. I was like this is this is going to be a home run for everybody and just walk them through how it worked. But that's, that is like an outlier. You know what I mean? You don't, you're never gonna find someone that's going to give you 100x return on stuff. And that's also like, not including media spend, like he's probably they're gonna pay millions of dollars to realise that, but I'm going back to kind of what I wanted to get out here is Yeah, I think 10x is a pretty decent, like situation to be in. But like more realistic things like five, most are, you know, that should be where your gut is. But homeruns are 10 10 is an absurd 10 10 very doable, if you have a home run, and you get those home runs from having really honest discovery, talking about the whole picture, I think that you know how to index your, your engagement with an agency is just be honest with them. From day one. We've gotten into situations where clients and tell us about other contractors or consultants or other people doing other things that were in areas that we would be touching. And that just creates issues with the project. And, you know, it's you got to be really honest about like, what's going on with the business who's touching the website, who's touching the marketing, in setting expectations, and being everyone's just needs to be on the same page like you. And that's why we start with just so much focus on strategy. And what is the project? And what are we agreeing to do before we even get into designing or developing anything it's like, on paper like this is what is going to be delivered when this is all done. And everyone agrees to it. So there shouldn't be any, like surprises along the way. And that part is it takes time. And it takes a bunch of conversations, but that produces a superior result. And it allows us to get closer to the brand, learn more about the products and the offerings. And you know, like, there's just so much opportunity within these projects to help brands do things that they didn't, they never thought were possible, like automations, or, you know, there's just stuff you learned, like working with people closely over that time. That's like that is an insane opportunity that like none of us ever thought of, like another examples like a bundle a week like a custom product bundle builder for a client of ours was just something that like, everyone kind of overlooked in the first couple months of the engagement until we realised that they were doing this thing manually over the phone for the longest time. We're like, Well, why couldn't we just build a an app that does that for you on the website? A it's less manpower for you. No one has to get on the phone and deal with customers to do that. They can just click it and do it. And you can like explain things right then and there. And that's awesome lead magnet for the for the business. And they're like, Well, yeah, that sounds great. Like, why aren't we doing that? And it's stuff like that that happens once you start to like, really work with a trusted advisor, and they start to know your business. And they know what's possible, like, Well, before you do.

Matt Edmundson

Yeah. And that's good. That's good. I think one of the things that I've noticed over the years actually is a good agency will ask you really poignant questions about your business, and pull out from you things that you'd never really thought about before and make connections for you that you'd never really made before. And that actually, that's invaluable. Because Yeah, I find that as a business owner, I can become really quite tunnel visioned. And a good agency partner, especially with a specialism in a certain area will draw you out of that will get you to think a bit more broadly, a bit more holistically, or a bit more into areas that you've not thought about, right.

Chase Clymer

Yeah. And that that's the fun part of it for me is that in passing, a client will say something to us, like, oh, sorry, I was held up because of this. And then like, I just ignore the rest of what they said. And I was like, wait, that that could be this, like, Hey, have you thought about this before? And then it just ruined whatever the conversation was about to be because now we're talking about this whole cool new project we're about to do?

Matt Edmundson

Yeah, yeah, those those those magical sort of rabbit trail conversations are just, they're fantastic, aren't they? They're absolutely fantastic. Do you ever go to the client's premises? Or is this all done remote? I mean, you know, assuming we're not in lockdown for the rest of our lives, but is it? Do you do you go visit clients do on site work? Or is it all done remotely?

Chase Clymer

We are all remote just because we're based in Columbus, Ohio, and we only have like two clients here. So it is a lot. It's it's most of it's all remote. With that being said, we have visited like most of our clients places when we were travelling in those cities for various other reasons. And it's very fun to kind of just, you know, that's part of Client Services is just meeting people in real life and like learning a bit more about things but to answer your question, and I think people shouldn't be scared of having remote relationships. There's a lot of very smart people all over the world. And especially with our team, like everyone's, like really used to working remote now. So I would never force anyone to like go to a client's premises or anything like that. But, you know, some people probably would prefer that. And I would challenge them to ask them why. Why do you why why do you need that sort of thing? You know, just look at their track record. And if their track record works, and they didn't go to any of those people's places, why they need to show up at yours?

Matt Edmundson

Yeah, that's fair, fair questions to ask. So I've got, I've got my specialist, I've got some budget in mind, I've thought that through. I'm starting to clarify my expectations, I'm starting to, you know, I'm listening to you talk. And I'm starting to understand a lot more about what I can expect from the agency in terms of what they can offer, and just having these sort of quite candid conversations. Is there any Is there anything else I need to be aware of before engaging an agency?

Chase Clymer

Yeah, so there's one thing that I kind of want to point out here is we are a like, or a wildcard of an agency, where we have two sides of the business, we have the design development side of the business, which is like one team. And then we have the marketing and advertising side of the business, which is another team, all very focused on DTC brand stuff. So we can do both sides of it. There are a lot of companies and agencies out there that only do one side of it, and they do one side at very, very well. So you know, if you're engaging a an agency to do the design development part of things, they probably won't be helping you, you know, if they're, if they're not gonna help you with the other side of it, I would just ask that agency who they'd recommend, because I guarantee they have a referral partner that does great results, vice versa, as well. Like, if you're working with an ad agency, then you're getting great results. And you're like, you know what, I think our website could probably be better, it could be faster, this team is full of junk and codes, we tried a million apps, like who would you recommend us to work with? And they'll probably like, Oh, these people make sweet websites, you talk to them? We've you know, so that's kind of a little secret there is referrals are usually like the best way to work find quality people to work with. Yeah, um, but I kind of sidestepped your question, what was that again?

Matt Edmundson

Oh, the question was just, you know, is there anything else that I need to think about it? You know, I've got my, the things you've talked about so far about getting specialists having budgets, clear expectations, understanding a little bit more about the services the agency can offer you. You've just mentioned, you know, if you need them get referrals from people you work well with, but is there anything else, you know, any anything else I need to think about?

Chase Clymer

Yeah, the agency usually isn't going to do everything. So there's going to be other pieces of the puzzle. Like, for example, content is a huge part of a website redesign project. So do you have it? If you don't have it, you're going to need it, you know, some agencies, agencies will do various parts of the content, and some will do all of it, actually. But you know, we don't. So the conversation is usually like, do you have a copywriter? or How are you doing copy? Do you have like photos? Where's that you have videos? Where is that? You know, are you rebranding this, like who's doing that? You know, so there's a lot more, there's a lot of moving parts with like a big project, like a website redesign. And then even on like, the marketing side of things, like, as far as like engaging in an agency for like Facebook and Instagram ads or for email, the content again, is king like, so. I would say, make sure you have had the thoughts of like, thought, like, what's that? Think about what the questions the agency's gonna have for you in advance of like, Well, okay, well, where's the content for these things? What is your answer going to be? And it's like, well, we don't have it. That's not an answer that an agency wants to hear. So maybe you're prematurely reaching out, you need to figure out that that piece of the puzzle first, before you kind of reach out to an agency. Because that's usually a sticking point with a lot of redesign projects, a lot of marketing projects is they don't have the content to support their request.

Matt Edmundson

Yeah, that's very good. So make sure you understand what the holes are going to be in sort of plug those holes. It's interesting, isn't it around the whole the whole content thing because I think over the years, that's probably been one of the biggest, biggest black holes that people have sort of come and stuck with is just because someone's designing the website doesn't mean they're creating all the content you need for that website.

Chase Clymer

And the ad that goes back to understand, yeah, it goes back to setting expectations. Another thing is you need to be budgeting not only money, but time you're not going to write $100,000, check and get it in just get something back. You need to be like, you need to be involved in you need to answer their questions quickly. And well. Not quickly. You need to acknowledge the Ask quickly. You know, something we like to tell people is like a 24 hour delay in your responses a 40 hour 48 hour delay in your project, like it is the questions that we have are very important in the very timely, obviously, the tight timelines aren't that tight at times, but that's just that setting expectation of like, when you delay things, they're still near your deadline has been moved. That's just that's something they need to understand. Like, just because they said that like oh, Yeah, we could probably launch or launch on June 15. If you don't reply for two weeks, it is not June 15 anymore, it is now June 24, or whatever. So those are things that you need to understand communication and this, you need to budget your own time into this project, because it's going to be a big lift. And even when you're working with retainer, consultants for like, marketing and advertising, like, they're still gonna have questions for you, they're going to need your insight on, you know, perfect example here is like it can never be out of sight and out of sight, out of sight, out of mind for marketing, because they don't know what your inventory levels really truly look like when you're going to get a restock when you're going to be launching a new product, anything that's like more core to the brand, that they need to like, know about, like, you got to be communicative about all that stuff. Yeah. And, and you got to be very timely about it, if you're in a rush, you're a terrible client. I don't know,

Matt Edmundson

Well it is true. I mean, the worst clients are the ones that just a part of the reason they want an agency is they're so busy, they can't do it themselves. So they go get an agency, and feel like I can just do this. But that's not actually true at all, you're gonna need to give that agency some of your time and you know, direct

Chase Clymer

Yes, it's gonna take a couple of weeks for them to get up to speed on what's going on. You know, with marketing, it depends on where you're at. And marketing's if you're kind of just getting that ball rolling, there's gonna be some testing that needs to happen, you got to need to be okay with that. Like, even with paid ads, like you got to be okay with throwing 10s of 1000s of dollars down the drain to learn sometimes that's just the name of the game, with working with partners at times. But you can find some cool results. And I think it just takes a mindset shift like you can be extremely busy and like, you know, have a bunch on your plate. But if you understand that partner is gonna slowly take it off your plate and not instantly take it off your plate. That's the better mindset to be in. Yeah, um, but you can't, like, answer somebody and expect it to be done in five minutes. Like that is not a realistic expectation, because you got to look at it from your partner's side of things is, you know, they're working from, you know, depending on what type of business they have, they might be working with, like six clients at a time to, you know, 20 or 30 clients at a time, if it's a more scalable, nimble kind of operation of what they're doing. So you have to respect that you're not the next priority at all times.

Matt Edmundson

Yeah, yeah, that's very true. I think one of the things I say to people all the time is listen, be the nicest client that that agency has got,

Chase Clymer

oh, my gosh,

Matt Edmundson

If you are, you're gonna get the service that you want, right? It's just, it's just the way it is. Pay your invoices ahead of time. Be speeding your responses, be understanding, be fair, but be firm. You know, send cupcakes occasionally, you'll be amazed at what that does, right?

Chase Clymer

It's just that's it. That's a secret. You know what I mean? That's, that's truly a secret for anyone listening this podcast, if you can try your best. Like, obviously, if the agency is giving you the run-around, and they're screwing you fire them, like, don't do don't deal with that stuff. But if they're giving you results, and they're you know, they're working through their process, trust the process, that's a whole other thing we can talk about. But if they're working through their process, and they're doing it and you believe in what they're doing, you know, be very as as communicative as you can and be as understanding as you can ask as many questions as you want. But yeah, the nicer people, like I can see within our project management software, where some of the nicer clients get responses faster than some of the other clients that's in it's not me doing it, I get to see team members doing it. Because that's just human nature.

Matt Edmundson

Human nature. Yes, exactly. Right. This is human nature. If you're nice to people, people are nice back, right? I think there was this there was a thing recently, in the UK, I don't actually know if it's true. Where they were talking about how Apple customer service people have this sort of extraordinary budget, which they can distribute how they you know, how they see how they best see fit for the, you know, for the company. And the people when they're telling the stories, lo and behold, it's always the nice people that you know, that get whatever it is. And so, you know, I'm not saying there are other makes of computers out there. I happen to be a Mac guy. Every time I've gone into the Apple store with a problem, but gone in with a nice attitude. The guys have been amazing, do you know what I mean? And it's the it's the other way around it kind of smarts a little bit if you're an employment agency, because in your head, every customer's going, I'm paying you guys a shedload of money, you need to be nice to me, What do you mean, I have to be nice to you. I'm just saying, human nature, human psychology is such that if you're nice to that agency, you're going to get a much better service.

Chase Clymer

You kind of touched on something there that's worth mentioning is you're not paying the most to that agency, probably. You're probably is especially if you're in that in that area where you're going from like one to two. They I guarantee they have clients that are spending twice to three times what you're spending, but they're going to give you the same level of service because they they should be giving you the same level service that because they're nice people. So there's a reality around understanding that, you know, there's a scale to the budgets that are happening on the other side of things. And you're probably not the king of the castle.

Matt Edmundson

Yeah, exactly. Have you? Have you ever had to fire a client? It's a really interest. I mean, he talks about foreign agencies but have you had to let a client go?

Chase Clymer

Yep.

Matt Edmundson

And what would

Chase Clymer

You want more? You want more on that?

Matt Edmundson

Yeah. It's kind of curious know what the reasons are

Chase Clymer

How to to get fired by an agency 101.

Matt Edmundson

That's a great book

Chase Clymer

One, unrealistic expectations. Like we when we when we onboard clients, okay, an easy way is to just ignore our process. Like, say, if you think you're too cool for the processor, like you don't process doesn't apply to you, like you're getting, you're gonna get fired. And I'd be surprised that you got that far into, into our thing, like, we're very rigid about who we work with. And most people don't make it that far. Um, if you're, you know, on the first call I have with people, I don't really give a crap about what their project is. I'm like asking leading questions, to look for red flags, to try to weed out anyone that could be a potential bad fit. You know, talking smack about your old agencies doesn't automatically get you fired. But I'm gonna listen to what you have to say. And I'm gonna listen for both sides of the coin and be like, okay, like, that's realistic. Or, you know, these people will probably have unrealistic expectations. Yeah, um, you know, just how you treat me how you treat other people on the call, all those things are, are very kind of important to me. Also, the level of response, I get to our brief, is it been super, super interesting to figure out who's gonna be a good fit or not. The, the clients that go into more detail on the questions that we ask are always like, they usually end up being clients. It's like, Alright, you're taking this seriously, you're not just half asking this, like, this is important to you. So it's going to be important to us. You know, clients that now go into, like, how you get fired, and clients get fired, unrealistic expectations. clients that want the world but don't have a budget to accompany it, oftentimes get fired. I don't know. Like, we're so. Yeah, I mean, it's our processes getting very, very rigid. So like, these people are not really getting through anymore. But these days, it's usually an amicable, amicable part, you know, it just, it's just the nature of it. Like you can't keep clients around forever. And sometimes it is just a one off project. And everybody understands that.

Matt Edmundson

Yeah, no, it's fair comment. And yeah, I haven't been on both sides of the table. I think it's it is fascinating, just listening to you talk, because you can, I'm just going down my mental checklist game. Yep. Yep. agree with that. Yep. Yep. It's, and it's this, you talk about going through your process, adherence to the process, trust the process, is that another thing that I should be aware of when I'm talking to an agency just being really clear on what their process is?

Chase Clymer

Yeah, I think that's a good question to ask as a, as a potential client of an agency be like, Alright, so like, I like this, you know, we're on the same page with budget and timeline and what my need is, you've got a solution for us, what's the process look like? What's next? And they should have a solid answer for that, you know, even better is if they have like, a one sheet, like, this is what it looks like, you know, what I mean, this is what we're going to be doing together. Um, because the process means they've done it before process means there's efficiencies and they're going to be able to do things faster for you. You know, it's not necessarily a shortcut by any means. I don't think of it that way. It's just like a cheat sheet. It's like, Alright, like, we don't need to do this other stuff, because we're going to be doing the things that matter. Um, process is super important for agencies as well, if you're listening to this as on the cutting on the consultant side of things, if you're just signing clients, and just like, just doing the thing every time and not really like having a checklist or like, Alright, we do one, we do two, we do three, we do four, you are not efficient at all, and you're just self sabotaging. I don't think we do anything anymore that we haven't done before. So there's like a checklist within Basecamp for everything that we do. And it gets updated with every single project, still just better efficiencies, more structure, more information within our standard operating procedures, which are processes. And having that just, it just kind of sets homework for everybody. Like you know what the next step is, and nobody's in the dark, and it just makes things so much easier. But if you think you're too cool for the process, and you're like, well just do the thing, and like, this is gonna take too long. I don't want to do discovery. Like that's a bad fit, because, well, okay, let's skip discovery. And oh, wait, like we didn't know that your website was headless. Like now we can't do this.

Matt Edmundson

Yeah. Yeah, no, it's fair point. I've made it a point over the years actually, whenever I speak to a client is I will spend several hours with them before the project has started outlining the exact process that I think they need to take. So this is the process that we do. So this is what the process is, here's a piece of paper, here's all the information on here's why I think this process is important for you. And some of the key things along the way, you are now more than welcome to leave our office and take that information and run with it if you like, I've got no drama with that. And I've found over the years, the more I've been clear and open about our process, the more prospects of become clients, if that makes sense. It was back in the day. I don't know if you ever did this. But as back in the day, agencies were very guarded. They're like, this is my IP, right? This is this is stuff I can never ever tell you. And I found over the years that actually if you if you flip that the more open you are, as long as you're prospecting correctly, and bringing in the right sort of leads, actually, the more sales that leads to.

Chase Clymer

Yeah, absolutely, I couldn't agree more like on the podcast, I will just give very, very specific structured advice to the unique situation that we're talking about on there. And I just don't care. Like I do that like with every prospect that gets to the stage, the stage where they're going to get an estimate, there along with that estimate, they're getting like a 20 to 30 minute video of me walking through everything and being like this is how we're going to do this is how we're going to do that, like, here are the tactics I'm going to use to increase these things. And the tactics are like very specific to the client, the strategy is always the same. This is how I think about it. I don't know how, if that makes sense to you, maybe we maybe we need to drill into that a little bit more. But um, you know, I'll walk through all that stuff. And I'm like, Alright, cool. Like, this is what the thing looks like, you know, if you want to move forward, we're gonna take this video, and we're gonna put it on paper, and we're going to go through all these things and outline them even more, and get everybody on the same page, we're gonna sign that together, then we're gonna actually move into like doing the project. Um, but yeah, I mean, again, it just goes back to setting expectations, and everybody's gonna be on the same page. And words really matter. And eCommerce websites are super, super complex. So, you know, a theme, like a custom theme, to me doesn't mean the same, same as a custom theme to you or any of the listeners, and that's gonna be a bunch of conversations that you're gonna have to have to make sure that everyone knows what that means. What is the thing we're getting?

Matt Edmundson

Yeah, yeah, I always find that three letter acronyms are an absolute killer for people because what they understand by SEO and what I understand by SEO, two very different things. And so clarifying those terms are actually super, super important. Now, it's brilliant. Listen, Chase, this has been it's been, I feel like we've just sort of scraped the tip of the iceberg, as they say, on this whole topic. And it's been really fascinating talking to actually an agency owner about agency, and, you know, what are some of the things that we need to think about. And it's always fascinating talking to about this from your point of view, because normally you talk about it from the clients point of view, but actually, from the agency owners point of view, it's really interesting. Especially if you, you know, you want to get the most out of your agency, understanding how they work and how they think is super important. So thank you so much for being super generous with, with that information that if people want to reach out to you, if people want to connect to you, how do they do that?

Chase Clymer

Absolutely. Before I get into that, I really wanted to just answer the question, how do you 10x your relationship with an agency, you be honest, and you listen to them, and you're just highly communicative, and you're going to get amazing results. That's, that's as simple as that. And if you if you want to, if you want to do that, and you and you like what I'm saying, and you wanna learn more about what we were doing, you can check, check us out at electriceye..io. You can email me at [email protected]. Or if you enjoy my rants, and you like listening to be speaking, you'll hear me talk to other store owners about what's going on in their businesses or other subject matter experts or even Matt, that's been on my podcast, you can check out the podcast at honestecommerce.co. And it's also on YouTube. Now we're going video with the thing. That's pretty great.

Matt Edmundson

How are you finding that?

Chase Clymer

What was that?

Matt Edmundson

How are you finding that?

Chase Clymer

Well the first episode of the video stuff literally came out on Tuesday, Monday or Tuesday? I think Monday and it has more views and all the all the other ones. So it was a good idea.

Matt Edmundson

Yeah, well done. That's always a good sign. So that all that information that you've got there from Chase, we will of course, put in the show notes which you can get it on the website. Chase, listen, it's been fantastic. We'll, we'll have to have you back on at some point and talk about all kinds of other stuff to do with eCommerce, you've got a great show. So I feel like we could just have lots of conversations about this kind of stuff. But really appreciate you being with us. Thanks for taking the time out. And thanks for being super, super generous.

Chase Clymer

No problem. Thanks for having me.

Matt Edmundson

Thanks, buddy. Well, wasn't Chase fantastic. Absolutely. Fantastic. All right. Have good conversations with Chase. He's right. I was on his podcast and actually thoroughly enjoyed it as well. And so do check it out on honestecommerce.co is his podcast link. And that's a great way to connect with Chase or through his company. Again, like I say all the links, we will put in the show notes, you can get those for free at eCommercepodcast.net/63. We'll also put the transcript there. Now, what chase didn't mention is tonight's giveaway the giveaway for this week's podcast, you're going to have to act quickly folks right? Now head on over to the podcast website, eCommercepodcast.net/63 and scroll down a little bit on the page and you'll see like a little form where you just put your name and email address that just comes to us. And we're going to choose somebody from that list from those list of entries. Chase has done a course on Facebook ads and Instagram ads for Shopify sites where they've got this course they've got an ad agency, and they've got a digital course which is retail I think about $500. Okay, so that's their course, they are quite kindly giving away a free copy of their own work free entry, free subscription, whatever the right phrase is, to the course for one of our lucky listeners. So if you want to if you're interested in that, and you think I would really benefit from someone like Chase or Chase's agency, explaining the whole intricacy with Facebook ads and Instagram ads for getting sales on your Shopify site. You don't want to miss that giveaway. No you don't. So head on over to the podcast eek. The podcast, head on over to the podcast website, ecommercepodcast.net/63. Like I say be quick. This is the I think the the section on the website is gonna be open for two weeks from the live recording. So that's a week after the podcast airs two weeks from today, because we always record a week earlier. Check that out. Like I say you're not going to want to miss this week's giveaway. So big thanks to Chase for being super generous with the giveaway as well. So all of that said, thank you so much for watching. Thank you so much for listening. If you are watching us online, make sure you subscribe to a YouTube channel. Like Chase. Were on YouTube now. And why would we not be in this modern era in this modern world and you get to watch it as well as listen to it right? But if you're listening to the podcast on Apple, wherever you get your podcast from or Stitcher as I say Shopify, it's not at Spotify, a too similar on those two companies. And then obviously, make sure you subscribe because we put out free content every week. And it'd be great to see you back here next week as I interview some more insanely cool guests. Yes, we do. We've got another great guest lined up for next week. So make sure you come join us for next week's eCommerce podcast. It's been great chatting to you. Do connect with Chase. He's such a cool guy, and it'll be super, super helpful for you to reconnect with him. But that's it for me. Have a fantastic week. I'll see you again soon. Bye for now.