Guest: Jeff Sauer
Simplifying eCommerce Data: Finding Your Low-Hanging Fruit Without Drowning in Numbers
Have you ever stared at your analytics dashboard and felt completely lost?
Like you're sitting in a cockpit with hundreds of dials and switches but no idea which ones actually matter?
You're not alone. Most eCommerce business owners feel exactly the same way. We're collecting more data than ever before, but we're not necessarily getting clearer answers.
I recently had a fascinating conversation with Jeff Sauer, founder of Measure Holdings Group, about transforming overwhelming analytics into actionable insights. Jeff has helped thousands of marketers and business owners become "analytics ninjas," but his approach might surprise you.
The 80/20 Rule of Analytics: Less Really Is More
"You think you need 100% of the data, you'll only ever look at 20% of the data you collect," Jeff explained during our conversation.
Isn't that incredibly liberating?
Instead of trying to understand every single metric, what if we focused on configuring that vital 10-20% that actually matters to our business?
This approach transforms analytics from overwhelming to empowering. It's about driving a car rather than flying a plane – keeping things simple and focused on what moves the needle.
I wonder if most of us are measuring the wrong things entirely?
The research backs this up too. While we might think more data equals better decisions, the reality is quite different. A recent Oracle study found a striking paradox: 83% of people believe access to more data should make decisions easier, yet 86% report that in reality, more data has led to less confidence in their decision-making[1].
The numbers paint a concerning picture:
78% report being bombarded with more data from more sources than ever before
74% say the number of decisions they make daily has increased tenfold over three years
59% admit facing a decision dilemma daily[1]
This creates what psychologists call 'analysis paralysis' – as data grows, confidence in decisions seems to dwindle. Have you ever felt this yourself? That moment when one more chart or report feels like it might break your ability to choose anything at all?
The Car Dashboard vs. Airplane Cockpit: Finding Clarity
One of my favourite insights from our conversation was Jeff's perfect analogy: most eCommerce owners need a car dashboard, not an airplane cockpit.
"A car dashboard, it's pretty obvious. You need to put gas in the car. You're going your engines too hot and you're going too fast," Jeff explained. "An airplane has much more than that. Thing is, most people aren't flying airplanes."
This analogy resonates deeply because it's backed by cognitive science. George Miller's groundbreaking "7 Plus or Minus 2 Rule" from 1956 remains one of psychology's most cited principles. It tells us that our short-term memory can only hold about 5-9 pieces of information simultaneously—only 5 when the information is complex[2].
Despite our brain's impressive ability to process up to 11 million bits of information, we can only consciously process about 120 bits per second[3]. The gap between what we can perceive and what we can meaningfully process is enormous.
This limitation is precisely why trying to monitor 20+ metrics at once is not just difficult—it's neurologically impossible. Our brains simply weren't designed for it.
So what's the solution? Just as a car dashboard shows only the essential information (speed, fuel, temperature), your analytics should focus on the 3-5 metrics that truly matter for your eCommerce business right now.
Finding the Low-Hanging Fruit in Your Data
With the right approach, your analytics tool becomes more than just a reporting system—it becomes a guide that shows you exactly where to focus.
"The analytics tool helps you identify the low hanging fruit for your business. Then you just keep on picking it. I've never actually had to get a ladder out," Jeff shared.
What a refreshing perspective.
But how do you identify this low-hanging fruit? Jeff explained his framework:
"You just basically look at a page, did they get past the fold? Did they scroll? Did they get 50%? Did they see your call to action button? And then they take the action you wanted them to do, right?"
This approach makes intuitive sense, but the data backs it up too. When businesses focus on fixing their single biggest conversion leak rather than making multiple small improvements, the ROI difference can be staggering. A one-percent increase in conversion rate can yield a 200% increase in ROI under the right conditions[4].
Consider this example from actual eCommerce data:
With 100,000 visitors, a PPC spend of £25,000, and a gross profit of £50 per order:
At a 1% conversion rate: 1,000 orders, £50,000 gross profit, £25,000 net profit
At a 2% conversion rate: 2,000 orders, £100,000 gross profit, £75,000 net profit[4]
That single percentage point triples the profit. This dramatic swing illustrates why finding and fixing your biggest conversion leak first makes mathematical sense.
The Anti-A/B Testing Approach: When to Fix vs When to Test
Perhaps the most provocative idea Jeff shared was his "anti-A/B testing" perspective.
"We are now pioneering what we teach as the anti A/B testing," Jeff explained. "If you have a funnel and oil just spitting all over the place ... would you A/B test whether you should plug that hole or not? Or would you just plug the hole?"
For smaller sites, A/B testing can be a form of what Jeff calls "smart procrastination" – buying time and avoiding decisions rather than taking action.
"I think AB testing is something that buys people time and it makes them feel smart. But ultimately the reality is it only is reserved for the high traffic sites. You know, if you're a Best Buy or Google, you can A/B test and you can actually have significant weight in a couple of days. If you're a small store, you should just plug that hole and figure out the fastest way to plug that hole so you can keep on going and live another day."
The research supports this view. If your site receives only a few hundred visits per month, you're likely better off waiting and focusing on building your audience first[5]. The statistical reality is clear: the lower your traffic, the longer it takes to reach that coveted 95% reliability threshold that most A/B testing tools use as standard[5][6].
What if instead, we identified clear problems and just fixed them?
This doesn't mean A/B testing isn't valuable—it absolutely is for larger sites. Research from Harvard Business School shows that among startups adopting A/B testing, performance improves by 30% to 100% after a year of use[7]. But you need the traffic volume to make those tests meaningful.
Google Analytics: Still Essential for eCommerce?
When it comes to specific analytics tools, Jeff had clear thoughts on whether Google Analytics 4 is still worth implementing:
"Google Analytics 4 is a good tool. It's not as beautiful as the original Universal Analytics that we all loved. But I don't know how you could get by without having that installed on your site because it does add really high quality data to the mix."
He pointed out several key advantages:
Integration with Google's ecosystem (Search Console, Google Ads, etc.)
Remarketing capabilities
Segmentation options
However, Jeff emphasized that GA4 requires proper configuration:
"Google Analytics 4, the new version, does require some configuration. If you don't configure it at all, it's worthless. There's no point in using it if you don't do some configuration."
For larger businesses looking beyond Google Analytics, Jeff mentioned Adobe Analytics and Amplitude as popular alternatives that are taking market share, particularly among companies previously using the paid version of Google Analytics (GA 360).
AI's Growing Role in Analytics
The future of analytics will undoubtedly involve AI, though the integration is still developing:
"Gemini is my favorite AI engine. I think it's the dark horse and I think it's going to win to a certain extent because of its integration with Google suite. Once that gets plugged into tGoogle analytics, that level of analysis, it's like game over."
Jeff predicts that AI's ability to analyze patterns and make recommendations will transform how we approach analytics, though the timeline remains uncertain:
"AI, as long as it has access to the data set, and as long as it understands the data, it will be really good at finding trends and patterns out of it and giving recommendations. And so that's that, you know, with it, I think a year from now that that'll be pretty much guaranteed to happen. I'm actually quite surprised that it hasn't happened already."
This integration will likely make analytics even more accessible to eCommerce business owners who don't have dedicated analysts on staff.
Finding the Right Support for Your Analytics Journey
So how should you approach analytics if you're not a data expert? Jeff offered several paths based on business size:
For smaller businesses (under $500K revenue):
Learn it yourself through courses
Hire consultants for one-off setup (platforms like Upwork)
For growing businesses ($1M+):
Consider a true analyst who can provide recommendations
Look at community-supported learning platforms like Measure U
"At some point, this approach will pay for itself 10 times over by not wasting money on ads…."
The key insight is that analytics shouldn't be viewed as an expense center but as a profit center when leveraged properly.
Conclusion: Simplifying Your Approach to Analytics
So what's the takeaway for eCommerce business owners feeling overwhelmed by their data?
Focus on the vital few metrics that truly impact your business
Look for the low-hanging fruit - your biggest conversion leak
Fix obvious problems rather than testing everything
Configure Google Analytics properly (or get help doing so)
View analytics as an investment, not an expense
As Jeff put it: "These are real people who are trying to buy your products. They have real problems. And usually if you just understand where they're coming from and what they went through, you can start to say that this is why a real person didn't complete this."
What would happen if you stripped away everything but the 3-5 metrics that actually matter to your business right now? What clarity might emerge when you trade the airplane cockpit for the car dashboard?
Perhaps the path forward isn't more sophisticated analytics tools or bigger data sets, but the courage to simplify – to identify the vital few metrics that actually move the needle for your unique business, and to let go of the rest.
Couldn't that be the most liberating insight of all?
Sources:
[1] Oracle Study Reveals Decision Making Paradox: More Data, Greater Uncertainty [2] The Magical Number Seven, Plus or Minus Two - Wikipedia [3] Making Dashboards Optimal for Human Brain Processing [4] How Conversion Rate Impacts the ROI of Campaigns [5] Six Ways for Getting Started with A/B Testing with Low Traffic - abtasty [6] Understanding Statistical Significance in A/B Testing [7] Experimentation and Startup Performance: Evidence from A/B testing
Links for Jeff
Matt Edmundson (00:02)
Okay, you good to go?
So welcome to the eCommerce podcast with me your host Matt Edmondson. This is a show helping you deliver eCommerce. Wow, that's what we want to do. That's why we're here. I'm here to learn about eCommerce as much as you are. And we're going to be talking to the wonderful Jeff Sawyer today about how we how we do all kinds of weird, wonderful things to help grow our eCom business. But before we get into that.
Let me give a shout out to you if this is your first time with us. There we go. Sorry. It's just in my seat. Shout out if this is your first time with us. It's great that you're here. I hope you like the show. I hope you get a lot out of it. And if you're like me and you run your own e-comm businesses, I would genuinely love to hear from you. Come check me out on social media. You can find me on LinkedIn to search for Edmundson and I will be there. The link will be in the show notes, which is usually on your podcast app, but come find me. Come say hello. Tell me your story.
We are doing this thing where we are actively now seeking more founders to come on the show and tell their stories. We've got quite a few lined up, which I'm very excited about. But if you are a founder, if you run your own e-comm business, you you've got your own store, whether you're running it as a part-time side hustle, whether this is your full-time gig, whether you've turned over a hundred grand, whether you've turned over 10 million, I would love to talk to you. Would love to...
Find out your story and if you're up for it, come share it on the podcast. I promise I'll be kind. I'm always kind. As you know, if you're a regular to the show, but it would be genuinely great to hear from you. So do get in touch, come find me on LinkedIn or you can reach out to me through the website, ecommercepodcast.net. There's a little thing on there. Just fill that in and get in touch. We'd love to hear from you. So that's the plug over with. Let's talk about today's guest and jump into it, shall we? Jeff.
Sawyer is the data whisperer, which I just Jeff, I don't know if that's your general title, but actually I really like it. The data whisperer of digital marketing and founder of measure holding group where he has transformed thousands of marketers into analytics ninjas through his training and consulting. So we're in the dojo today, ladies and gentlemen, when he's not jet setting around the world as a digital nomad.
You can find this top 25 PPC expert spread in the gospel of data-driven marketing at major industry conferences, helping businesses turn numbers into gold. That was a good intro that Jeff. I like that. How are doing?
Jeff Sauer (02:49)
I love it. I've never been called a data whisperer. I'm not sure how my ninja skills are right now, but overall I want to get you all excited about this idea of measuring, because that is something I'm very passionate about. And that is pretty much I've dedicated my career to it because it was finally seeing the light when everything seemed dark at one point in my career. Numbers got me out of it. And that might sound like the craziest thing you've ever heard, but hopefully by the end of this episode,
Matt Edmundson (02:55)
Hahaha
Jeff Sauer (03:18)
We all feel the same way. We feel empowered to look at this stuff and turn it into a positive versus just something that doesn't make sense or intimidates you.
Matt Edmundson (03:26)
Well, fantastic. I'm looking forward to the conversation. Because I think data is always interesting. Analytics is always interesting. I think for a lot of people, analytics is a little bit kind of black artsy and quite scary. So it'll be good to get into that and start to understand it a little bit more. think I remember hearing a quote, Jeff, and I don't know, I genuinely don't know if this is an attributable quote.
I should probably Google it and find out. I'm sure someone will let me know, but there's a quote that I've heard that says something like this. I think it was Einstein that said it. If I was given a problem, I would spend 95 % of my time defining the problem and 5 % on the solution. Now the percentages may have changed, it'll be different. There is this idea, I think, of when you are faced with a problem, devoting a large amount of time to clearly understanding the problem and defining it.
gives you the majority of the solution that you need. And this is where, for me, data and analytics can actually be your friend, especially in the world of e-commerce, because we measure absolutely everything. Well, it seems we measure absolutely everything.
So yeah, I'm kind of curious with the whole thing. You said you've got a passion for it. You've got to look for it. Was that just from birth? Was this as a result of some cosmic coincidence? Or was it because actually something happened and you needed to start getting your head around data?
Jeff Sauer (04:57)
Yeah, yeah. So I'll, I love the quote. You made me you're reminding me of one of you have an hour to chop down a tree, spend 45 minutes sharpening your axe. It gets similar, right? And that is Yeah, yeah. So that I mean, that the concept is true, though, right? Like, the more strategy you have, the more you think about these things, the less of a technical problem it becomes. Now, the funny thing is how I got into this thing was purely based on technical merit. So I graduated with a computer science degree, I
Matt Edmundson (05:05)
Yeah, yeah, I think that was from the seven habits, wasn't it? The seven habits. Yeah, but yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Jeff Sauer (05:26)
thought I was just going to be a computer programmer my whole life. Got into some debt and I had to make money. And so I started becoming like a low end front end website developer and just making websites for people because I could do that and was decent at it, but not great. And but it was paying the bills. And then finally I made a website for somebody who said, Hey, Jeff, thanks for the website. But I don't really think it's I'm not going to pay you because I'm not making any money off of it. I need you to help me make money off this thing so I can pay you for the website.
Matt Edmundson (05:28)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
wow.
Jeff Sauer (05:55)
And I was like, well, how do you do that? So I looked into things like paid paid ads, SEO. And finally arrived at this thing called stats, which eventually became analytics. And ultimately, that was the only thing I could use that would help me figure out how to make this guy money in order to get paid. And so that this was, you know, that was sort of the whole background was it is that I couldn't nothing else was accountable. The only thing that was accountable was looking at the numbers, seeing what the numbers said, and then using the numbers to leverage it so you could get
Matt Edmundson (05:58)
Mm-hmm.
Mm.
Jeff Sauer (06:23)
more of the result you're looking for. Basically saying this is positive, is not working so well, let's put all of our effort into this. Which, even though the Pareto principle has been around forever, the idea of 80-20, that was my first introduction to 80-20 being a real thing. And being something that was shifting, that actually could make money, right? Like you can read about something in math and that sounds cool.
Matt Edmundson (06:39)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Sauer (06:46)
But when you're actually talking about somebody making money off their website, because you 80 20 and something because you had the numbers to point it out, that was magical. And so it was the first time that I really felt accepted. And then I belonged in that world because I took this this technical thing and turned it into something that made somebody money. And it turns out that I'm a lot better at making people money than I am at being technical. And so and so that's where I ended up finding a career, a career, let's just call it that a career.
Matt Edmundson (06:57)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Sauer (07:14)
And then there's been a lot of phases in the career. I'll love to get into those. But that's sort of the Genesis story of how I became a numbers guy. Even though and I had the you know, I had the education to become a numbers guy, but it was really in the field that got me there.
Matt Edmundson (07:29)
So I'm curious, once you sort of started to get your head around the analytics for this guy that wasn't making any money, what did you learn and what did you do? How did you turn his side around?
Jeff Sauer (07:40)
Yeah, I mean, sometimes it's like the most obvious solution is the answer. And that is ride the hot hand, figure out what's working and then double down on it, do more of that. And this is any e-commerce store owner that's out there, anybody who's got some kind of momentum. The data will tell you how you've succeeded in the past. And then you can do some kind of extrapolation to say, okay, I can go do more of this. The reality is that 80 20 is just like a never ending thing. It's everywhere around you at all times.
Matt Edmundson (07:46)
Mm.
Mm-mm.
Jeff Sauer (08:08)
And that is that most of the things you do aren't going to work. You got to grow a thick skin in order to understand that. And then the few things that do work, they work extremely well and they end up being your payback on everything you do. So it could be a couple skews that perform well for you. It could be any one of those things. That's usually how it is. Now we all want things to be different. We all want it to be more sustainable. We want to have a portfolio play. We want to hedge our bets and there's merit in doing that.
Matt Edmundson (08:17)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Jeff Sauer (08:37)
But the reality is that it's still going to be a handful of things that work really well. And analytics just helps you get there faster. And now we're getting better to the point where it can actually predict what's going to happen. It can predict behaviors. There's all kinds of things that are happening where if you feed the data into these machine learning algorithms, into the big data pipeline, into Meta's algorithms, into their systems, into Google's systems, it's ultimately they're going to use all the power to find
Matt Edmundson (08:56)
Yeah.
Jeff Sauer (09:06)
8020s that you never even dreamed of that to find the things that are working and that's that's ultimately how the entire ecosystem works of advertising and analytics. Now is that you are constantly feeding your results and then they're constantly trying to get you more of the same results.
Matt Edmundson (09:07)
Yeah.
Yeah, that's a point. And it's I think it's going to be that way for a little while. I mean, I know we're living in a new world order now. And but I think some of these principles sort of stay the same, don't they? I'm curious, Jeff, I mean, you sound like quite a knowledgeable chap in this whole area. Let's let's deal maybe with the big elephant in the room, right? In the sense that when it comes to analytics, whether it be
Google Analytics, you're looking at whether it's a dashboard from the platform. I'm a big fan of a platform that's done by Sweet Analytics guy called Oliver Sparks been on the show. British guy who's created that problem, problem, created that platform, problem and platform. So we've used that in the past and still use that today. I guess my, my observation is now because it is so easy to measure everything.
and we do measure everything. How do we avoid the overwhelm of data? Because sometimes I just look at things and go, just don't know where to start.
Jeff Sauer (10:28)
Yeah, well, there's a lot of different ways. And so I'd love to help everybody figure that out. First thing is, and this is just back to the origin story and the evolution. When I first started teaching this stuff almost 20 years ago, I was teaching technical things. I was telling somebody where to click a button, how to put JavaScript on your site, how to get code access to your site and put stuff on there. And that was pretty much every conversation we had.
Matt Edmundson (10:43)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Sauer (10:54)
Thankfully, that's not really necessary anymore. There's lots of ways to get the code on your site and attract things. And it's easier to collect data than ever before. Now that's positive from a not as intimidating, but then it just creates another level of intimidation. And that is now data overload, data deluge, just so much of it, big data, right? Just so much to choose from that you don't even know what matters anymore. These dashboards have all these indicators. It's almost like an airplane cockpit as opposed to like the dashboard of a car.
Matt Edmundson (10:57)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Jeff Sauer (11:24)
right? A car dashboard, it's pretty obvious. You need to put gas in the car. You're going your engines too hot and you're going too fast.
An airplane one has, you know, it's much more than that. And so that's what ends up happening right now. Thing is, most people aren't driving airplanes. They're not flying airplanes. And, you know, if you get into e-commerce, you know, just as a business, you don't, you didn't get into this thing to fly airplanes. You got in this thing to drive a car, right? To drive from one point to the other. And so one thing is,
Matt Edmundson (11:36)
Mm-hmm.
Mm. Mm.
Jeff Sauer (11:54)
Instead of having the airplane dashboard and having everything possible, these instruments that you don't need, realize that you're that you're in a car and simplify it. And so again, I hate to say 80 20 all the time, but it ends up usually being about the ratio. I always tell people that in Google Analytics, you think you need 100 % of the data, you'll only ever look at 20 10 to 20 % of the data you collect. And I'd rather have you spend time configuring that 10 to 20 % to give you exactly what you need.
Matt Edmundson (12:07)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Sauer (12:23)
as opposed to spending that time trying to understand all 100 % of what you have. And so the way that we help people with that is we actually developed our own framework called the Measurement Marketing Framework at MeasureU. And that basically tells you ask the right questions about what you want this data to do. What do I need this thing to tell me? Is it that you're tracking like a product detail page and you want to see where people drop off and whether they're looking at it or not?
Matt Edmundson (12:29)
Yeah.
Jeff Sauer (12:50)
Is it that you want to track your cart and if they're dropping off in the cart is how do you have to basically figure out what behavior you're trying to track, get to that level. Like what am I trying to solve? Now the good news is that you need analytics in order to know that you have a problem. Like if you look at your, your cart abandonment rate is 98 % and you're expecting it to be 60%, that the data is telling you where to focus. So it's already telling you where to go. Then within that area,
Matt Edmundson (12:54)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yep.
Jeff Sauer (13:19)
There's if it once you identify the problem, it's actually pretty easy to solve it. It's when you're trying to solve everything all at once that that becomes a problem. So is your problem your home page? Is your problem your traffic source? Is your problem the product detail page? Is your problem your cart? Is it checkout? Is all these different things? Ultimately, using data will help you to decide where things are. Could be everything. Chances are it's not everything. It's usually one thing that's the lowest hanging fruit.
Matt Edmundson (13:42)
Mm. Mm.
Jeff Sauer (13:47)
And usually, you know, the analytics tool helps you identify the low hanging fruit for your business. Then you just keep on picking it. I've never actually had to get a ladder out. You know what I mean? Never have to get a ladder out at all. If you just keep on picking that fruit because the next thing's going to keep on coming down next and get ripe at the same time. And so that's where I look at it not being intimidating. Look at it as being empowering for your business.
Matt Edmundson (13:58)
Yeah.
Yeah.
I love the car and plane analogy. Thank you for that. That really helps me. Having driven cars and flown planes, can attest to both. I'm like, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I like this idea of letting the data, rather than trying to understand everything, understand the key problems that it's telling you and then use the data to help you solve that particular problem. In your example, the abandoned car, you know, if that's going wrong.
You can then use the data to sort of highlight that from your experience Jeff I dare say haven't done this with a fair few people around the world in the world of e-commerce What are some of the common? Issues that you're seeing in the data sort of some of the common problems that keep coming up over and over again that we could maybe think about Starting with those in our own analytics
Jeff Sauer (15:01)
Yeah. So we, our framework, the way that we would answer that, because there's, there's, there's big problems. And there's like, we focus on five problems. So we call it the eyes on the journey. It's like different eyes, like the letter I. So it's like, you know, did it, it's, you just basically look at a page, and we're talking about an individual page, but this could be your whole site, but it starts with a page like, did they get past the fold? Did they, did they scroll? Did they get 50 %?
Matt Edmundson (15:09)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Sauer (15:28)
Did they see your call to action button? And then they take the action you wanted them to do, right? So we basically focus on the different areas. And then we see what percentage of people should have been doing that. What percentage of people should get past the full? What percentage of people should be doing that? And it gives you a nice clean dashboard that tells you whether or not you're in an acceptable range. And then it automatically tells you whether that's working, whether you're in the right spot or not. Does that make sense? So basically, we tell you where the drop off is. It does take some configuration. It's minimal.
Matt Edmundson (15:34)
Mm-mm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah it does.
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Sauer (15:57)
But that will tell you, OK, here's what your problem is. Most people don't really know what problem they're trying to solve because they don't do any configuration at all. And they don't really understand, like, hey, my bounce rate's high. That means that I need to fix my bounce rate. Or I have a lot of returning visitors. How do I get more new visitors instead of returning? it's like, that's not really a thing. That's just like a default. So moving beyond defaults, but not going too complicated where you're just trying to
Matt Edmundson (16:10)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Jeff Sauer (16:26)
create this thing that doesn't isn't necessary. ultimate idea, the ultimate concept here is that these are real people who are trying to buy your products. They have real problems. And usually if you just understand where they're coming from and what they went through, you can start to say, yeah, this is why a real person didn't complete this because I failed them on my headline. I didn't have enough images. The images weren't very good. I had the highest price on the internet. I was not competitive.
Matt Edmundson (16:46)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Sauer (16:52)
those types of things I offer. I put a coupon code in the checkout when when I actually don't want to offer a coupon code and that's where they dropped off. So ultimately you're using the data to tell you what you need to pinpoint and then pinpointing it. It goes back to the human element is like why did this human? Why do these humans not do that at the rate that I wanted them to?
Matt Edmundson (17:03)
Mm-hmm.
Which is... I mean that is just an interesting question isn't it? Why do people not behave like they should, dang it! If I could solve that problem with analytics or whatever I'd be a very worthy man.
So let's maybe think about some more basic questions. Basic's probably the wrong word, but Google Analytics, yes or no?
Jeff Sauer (17:37)
Google Analytics 4 is a good tool. It's not as beautiful as the original Universal Analytics that we all loved. But I don't know how you could get by without having that installed on your site because it does add really high quality data to the mix. And also the integration with Google is as tight as it gets. Integrating with Search Console, integrating with your Google Ads campaigns, integrating with different Google products. There's nothing that has that tight of an integration that can give you that data.
Matt Edmundson (17:52)
Mm.
Yeah.
Jeff Sauer (18:04)
that can use it to train their advertising algorithms. can let you do remarketing. It can do all the segmentation. So if you don't do it, you're missing out a lot, especially if you are using Google Ads as a primary traffic driver or Google and organic search.
Matt Edmundson (18:09)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Which I mean, you're going to be on, I mean, at least for the next few years until, you know, they're no longer needed because I don't know, AI glasses do it all for you or something, you know, but, it, it, it, sort of, it is one of those things I can get. I, I get why people are a little bit twitchy about putting Google analytics on their website. you know, especially with the big brother, you know, Google's watching everything.
Jeff Sauer (18:30)
Yeah, yeah.
Matt Edmundson (18:48)
My general response to this is they're watching everything anyway. You know, it's don't really think it's going to make a massive difference, but you're right. The integrations seem to be getting better and better with Google in so many ways across their platforms.
Jeff Sauer (19:03)
And if you read
the terms of service for Google Analytics, they do not share data with their other products. It's the one thing where they won't. Chrome does. There's other ones that don't tell you they don't share data, but Google Analytics does not share the data. They can't even access it unless you check a box that says that their specialist can look at it. So it's not shared data. You do own that data. that's the reason why they still are able to run in the European Union because of that. So they basically had to take
Matt Edmundson (19:10)
Mm.
Mm.
Hmm.
Jeff Sauer (19:31)
data privacy really seriously on that product. And then you actually on the data Google doesn't, they just store it for you.
Matt Edmundson (19:34)
Yeah.
Yeah, fantastic. are there any competitors to Google Analytics that we should be thinking about?
Jeff Sauer (19:44)
Yeah, I mean, I know that a lot of big e-commerce stores are using Adobe Analytics. if you configure it, mean, just so you know, Google Analytics 4, the new version, does require some configuration. If you don't configure it at all, it's worthless. There's no point in using it if you don't do some configuration. You can set up things like custom events. You can set up e-commerce tracking necessary. You can set up your key events, what we used to call conversions. But that would be the same with Adobe.
Matt Edmundson (19:49)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Jeff Sauer (20:13)
Like if you're going to put Adobe in place and you don't configure it to help your store make sense, it's you're going to, it's just telling you clickstream data, which clickstream data is not, really that important because it doesn't tie to a result. It doesn't tie to the language you speak. So that's one amplitude is getting a lot of, um, a lot of people who left GA three 60 specifically the paid version of Google analytics have moved over to amplitude. They're just like drinking from a fire hose now because a lot of advanced e-commerce stores did want to have.
Matt Edmundson (20:14)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Sauer (20:43)
They're not going to just ride with Google because the initial release just didn't have everything they needed. So those are the two that are taking a lot of market share away from Google.
Matt Edmundson (20:52)
You've
kind of alluded to my next question in many ways. What is it that they offer then that Google's not offering?
Jeff Sauer (20:58)
Yeah, I mean, one can a clear product roadmap and a clear customer segment they're going after. I've been teaching Google Analytics in a classroom since 2010. And even back then, I said Google Analytics, it's the same Google Analytics, whether you're doing it for your 10 person cat video blog, or you're doing it for the biggest ecommerce site in the web in the internet, right? It's the same Google Analytics when you install it, like it's the exact same product. And then it's all about your configuration. Now, if you did something that was more aligned with
Matt Edmundson (21:02)
Mm.
Yeah. Yeah.
Jeff Sauer (21:27)
an e-commerce specific tool, you already have a market that understands your language, right? So that's the main advantage to it is that these the specialty tools. They are geared towards your outcome versus every outcome for everybody on the internet. And so Google will never be able to compete in that same way as a specialty tool can. But also that integration and that tightness with other Google products, it's like,
maybe make it one B then maybe it's not your one A system, but it could be your one B cause how are you going to find that otherwise?
Matt Edmundson (21:54)
Mm-hmm.
That's really cool. did you mentioned you've seen larger companies use these? Is there a certain, well, for example, if I've recently started my econ business and I'm turning over, I don't know, 50, 100 grand in the year, not massive amounts of money, do I look at Adobe? Do I look at Amplitude? is there like a, is there a cost that's a big barrier to entry here that I need to be aware of?
Jeff Sauer (22:25)
Yeah,
I love it. is is right in my, this is my jam right here. Just talking about this type of geeky stuff. So generally speaking, you know, companies like an ecommerce company, they probably spend to marketing advertising, maybe 20 % of their budget. I don't really know you, you know that better than me, but let's just say they spend 20%. Most companies spend between one and 2 % on their analytics tools and the team. And so if you're $100 million store, you'd be putting a million to 2 million into that.
Matt Edmundson (22:40)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Sauer (22:53)
you
definitely have the capacity to pay $100,000 for Google Analytics for 360, that version, or the Adobe Analytics. And you'd have money left over to train your team and to get things going. If you're a million dollar store, you're talking about maybe $10,000 for that. That's where you hire a consultant to tag your site, to do it one time and to build you a dashboard. That's pretty much all you can afford at that rate. And so really comes down to where you're at. Avinash Kashuk, who's a guy that I
Matt Edmundson (23:04)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Jeff Sauer (23:23)
followed as I was learning Occam's Razors blog, he called it the 10 90 rule 10 % goes to the people or to the tools 90 % of the brains. And so at $100,000 for your analytics tool, that would mean that you need to that million dollar budget. That means that you're in the 100 million range. So most of these tools that the paid ones are priced towards 50 plus million dollar entities. And so that ultimately you can sort of self sort based on that. And I've actually worked with companies that do
Matt Edmundson (23:28)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Jeff Sauer (23:53)
you know, a hundred million plus in revenue and they still don't want to pay Google for their paid tool. They get by on the free one. and then that's just, that's just where they, they, maybe they think that money should go elsewhere. Maybe they look at it as an expense where they could put that money into media, which is working for them, or they don't want to pay for a configuration, but that you can self sort based on just the tool price. And then that one to 2 % of revenue being your entire function for analytics.
Matt Edmundson (24:03)
Yeah. Yeah.
And so if I'm if I'm starting out then or I'm you know, got a smaller site Let's turn it over. I don't know half a million bucks At this point to configure analytics well and to give me the data that I need I Guess I can either learn it myself, you know cue YouTube or cue the courses that you guys do
Or I can go find a consultant maybe to help me set this up right. Have I understood that correctly?
Jeff Sauer (24:50)
Yeah, those are pretty much your options. Do it yourself with a combination of self-education and you doing the work, or get a consultant. That's probably in the Upwork category for somebody who's doing a half a million a year. You're probably going to Upwork and finding somebody to really do it as a one-off, doing it as the install, the technical piece of it. You're not even really able to afford an analyst at that point. You're sort of your own analyst, but you're just getting somebody to cut down on the learning curve on time.
Matt Edmundson (25:01)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Jeff Sauer (25:18)
When
you're a million plus, I think you might start looking at a true analyst or somebody who's giving you recommendations. That person usually pays for themselves because they're telling you the pockets where you have revenue missed opportunities and stuff like that, where your ad spend can be more effective. And then, you know, like we do exist for a reason and we do have customers for a reason. And that's because there's stores. mean, there's a lot of people who want to self-educate, right? And what the value we have at Measure U is we have the courses, we have
Matt Edmundson (25:29)
Yeah.
Jeff Sauer (25:48)
unlimited support. We have mentors people we have dozens of mentors who have gone through our materials who have been doing this for 510 years, and they're ready to help. And so you sort of pay for that community that that will support you doing these things on your own. And so that's that's really where we fit into the puzzle as well.
Matt Edmundson (25:49)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And is there, is AI getting better at helping you here analyze this stuff on a regular basis or is AI not quite there yet?
Jeff Sauer (26:18)
It's so funny, like really, when do you release this episode is sort of the answer, right? Cause it's like, as of, as of the time we're recording this, I would say the AI is the integration is not quite there, but I mean, Google Gemini is my favorite AI engine. I think it's, I think it's the dark horse and I think it's going to win to a certain extent because of its integration with Google suite and stuff like that. Once that gets plugged into the Google analytics and they can do that, that level of, of analysis, it's like game over for.
Matt Edmundson (26:33)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Jeff Sauer (26:46)
for some of the old way of doing things. It's inevitable. Like it will happen. I don't know when. It could be that it's already out there, you know? But the reality is that AI, as long as it has access to the data set, and as long as it understands the data, it will be really good at finding trends and patterns out of it and giving recommendations. And so that's that, you know, with it, I think a year from now that that'll be pretty much guaranteed to happen. I'm actually quite surprised that it hasn't happened already.
Matt Edmundson (26:48)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm.
Jeff Sauer (27:15)
I think a lot of it has to do with just the, I don't want to get into a technical explanation, but it has to do with access of the APIs that pull the data in, and then just integration among teams, and then just the extensibility of these models. But I think that Google having what I think is going to be the winning large language model in Gemini, and then the best integration. You already see it integrating into G Suite. It's going to happen.
Matt Edmundson (27:24)
Mm-hmm.
Mmm, yeah.
Jeff Sauer (27:41)
relatively soon, I can only imagine into Google Analytics and into the entire advertising product. And they're doing it already. It's just that it's not like you can't like, it's not your assistant. It's more of like it's their assistant.
Matt Edmundson (27:42)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, I mean, I logged into my, I don't normally log into Gmail. I have a Google mail account, but I normally have a, um, just have it on the computer. Um, and then when I logged into it for whatever reason, the other day, uh, and I saw Gemini was there. I was quite excited because I know you can switch it off, but I, I was very much like, Gemini, this is the email that I'm looking for. Can you please find it? And Gemini goes away and goes, of course I can. Here it is. And you're like, Holy cow.
Jeff Sauer (28:14)
Yeah. Yeah.
Matt Edmundson (28:21)
this is quite an extraordinary new feature that, you now see on the G suite with the docs and the spreadsheets and all that sort of stuff. so, I, I'd like you, I think it's a bit of a dark horse, but the fact is so well integrated in Google, is the most extraordinary thing. And so yeah, when it comes out, who knows whether you'll be able to do this on your analytics. but I am.
I mean, I know that I can, I've done it before with large datasets is I've just given it to chat GPT and go and tell me what you think. I tend to be a little bit more creative, I suppose, in my prompt engineering. But in essence, that's what you're asking for, isn't it? And it can help you analyze data. guess the thing that I'm thinking of here, Jeff, is as a very good friend of mine, Chris Ivers, who's a beautiful lady, I've just touched on, I need to get out.
Let me just make a note, contact Chris. I've not spoke to her for a while. Anyway, she has this great phrase that you don't know what you don't know. And I think sometimes with data and with AI, it can be a little bit like that. If you kind of have a clue or an inkling, it can help you figure stuff out. But if you don't know what you don't know, it's hard.
Jeff Sauer (29:22)
Mm-hmm.
Matt Edmundson (29:38)
So look at that, it's hard to get that information out if that makes sense. I think you've got to have a sort of an interesting starting point along the right track. And I guess it'll be, that'll be the interesting thing when AI in effect becomes your permanent data analyst, you know, and they can tell you what you don't know. But I've not seen that yet.
Jeff Sauer (29:41)
Yeah.
Yeah,
it's getting there for actually. just to comment on that, we've we've been in Gemini. We've been basically not taking the first response like we like they'll give us a response. I'm like, that's a seven out of 10. But did you consider this? And then can you make this a nine out of 10? And then they'll redo it and it'll be better. And then, OK, that's a nine out of 10. We still have the missing this thing. Can you make it a 10 out of 10? They'll fix it. And so you can train this thing to just keep on getting better.
Matt Edmundson (30:08)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Sauer (30:25)
and just keep
on challenging it and it will self heal and self improve. And so, I mean, that that's that you could do that with analysis to the question is, how big of a pain in the butt is it to get the data out? That's really the problem is like you have if you have to download it into a flat file, and then do this and then get another file that that's the challenge, I think right now is just that it's actually getting it the what you need to feed it in there. But that, again, that that'll be solved relatively quickly. And so that never say no.
Matt Edmundson (30:29)
Mm.
Yeah. Yeah.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm.
Yeah.
Jeff Sauer (30:54)
like we don't know what we don't know. And then also like, I would never answer a question about whether AI can do something with the word never. It's just when it's when
Matt Edmundson (31:01)
Yeah, yeah,
yeah, well especially at the moment, you know, the race is peddling ahead very quick, isn't it? This is all very fascinating and I'm kind of curious, you know, we've With your course. So let's say I do a half a million. I think well, I'm gonna go do just course I'm gonna figure the whole analytics thing out. And I don't know if you've got any ironic data around this but
I tend to find, and this may be a personal thing, Jeff, where I might go and do that, or I might ask one of the team members to do something like that course, and they go through it. They get it, they understand it. And so we start off strong, right? As in, we found this, this, and this, let's go fix that. But six months later, everybody's forgotten about everything because there's just the normal run of day-to-day life going on. So how important is it?
for me as an e-commerce entrepreneur to think about having someone maybe dedicated just to data analysis.
Jeff Sauer (32:06)
Yeah, everything you got to look at it is like, can you get an ROI from that? So say that you have half a million dollar store, you have limited resources, you get two or three pick yours, right? Would that be one of the two or three?
Matt Edmundson (32:16)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Sauer (32:22)
Yeah. Would it be one of the two or three people that you ended up choosing to, put there? Probably not because I'd rather have somebody running the ads. I'd probably have somebody managing inventory, sourcing product. There's, there's way more things to do. Right. And that might be you wearing all those hats, right? You might be at that point. Usually it's when you get to that 10 ish people, like when you have two people in marketing, the third one should be an analyst, I think.
Matt Edmundson (32:24)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Jeff Sauer (32:50)
or you, there's more, there's more value in analyzing inventory, analyzing product choices and stuff like that. But at some point, literally it will pay for itself 10 times over by not wasting money on ads, by not wasting money on traffic. However you generate it, that just isn't efficient that goes away. Having an eye on the site and that customer experience and tying it all together. Eventually you lose money by not doing it versus gaining. So.
lot of like, I've been in this industry for long enough that it's treated as an expense center for most companies, but those who treat it as a profit center and can see the light are the ones who are at the cutting edge. They're the ones who are compounding the value of doing this. And they're the ones who are growing versus the people who are like, I don't see the value in investing in that, or it's, you it's not worth it. They end up just staying in the same spot because they don't have the data in order to tell them how to improve. They can't see the patterns because they're not addressing it.
Matt Edmundson (33:48)
Mm.
Jeff Sauer (33:48)
So it's
not an expense center. It's a profit center when yielded properly. at some point, mean, if you're too young, too early in this thing, it's just an expense. But if you invested in our courses, learned our framework, implemented it, and then had somebody who, and you loved it, and you made it part of what you're doing, that'll be a reason why you double your revenue year over year.
Matt Edmundson (33:55)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, no, fair comment. Fair comment. I do find with a lot of these things, the more I try and do, the less I seem to get done. And so I'm very aware that finding people to help me is a beautiful thing, whether that's agencies, whether that's consultants, whether that's people on network or fiber, whether that's part-time staff, whatever it is.
I found that the more it's relying on me, the less likely it is to happen in the long run, you know.
Jeff Sauer (34:41)
Yeah. Well,
that's, that's challenging for the, especially if you're the owner of the business, like you DIY'd yourself into the business. Like you had to figure all these things out at some point, you can't learn anymore. so we do offer do it yourself, like just buy a course, learn it, go implement it. Then we have done with you. That's the majority of our customers where they're in a community, they're asking questions and that's, that's more geared towards the freelancer slash agencies that you work with and the employees.
Matt Edmundson (34:49)
Mm-hmm.
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Sauer (35:07)
not
to the business owner. And then we also do done for you services, which is where the owner wants the result. And they're like, I just want to pay for the result from experts. That's our done for you service where you can get to that point. At no point really is, should I recommend that the business owner themselves get heavily into the technical pieces of analytics because they have other things to solve usually. And if you can allocate money towards it, that's something where there's people who will excel at that. Very rarely does somebody
Matt Edmundson (35:13)
Yeah.
Jeff Sauer (35:36)
start an e-commerce store and then want to become the master at analytics.
Matt Edmundson (35:41)
Well, yeah, I did to be fair I've met a few of them But yeah on the whole I would I would tend to agree. I'm it's it's an interesting one, isn't it? the who does it in the organization? And I think actually quite rightly given it the do and the importance That you have especially because like you said there's so many options you can learn you can do the done with you You can do the done for you, you know
Jeff Sauer (36:04)
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I you can be a leader. You can say
that data is important. You can say these things are there, but you're not going to be going and figuring out how to configure it and like researching how to get JavaScript on your site or what tag management solution to use. Ultimately, you're going to just champion that this is important to us that we want this versus not. We want to see answers. We want to see it clearly and this is important to us. Go figure it out.
Matt Edmundson (36:21)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, no, fair play, fair play. How important is it, and I appreciate just hearing the question in my head, it sounds a little bit silly, but I have heard both sides of the argument here. I'm curious to see where you sit. How important is AB testing?
Jeff Sauer (36:46)
So we that's funny because we are now pioneering what we teach as the anti a b testing and I'm be qualified for a second, but Yeah Yeah, no, no actually you can just leave it there but a b testing is a is this whole Idea that it comes down to just one subject line versus the other one image versus the other button color yellow versus orange and ultimately that is
Matt Edmundson (36:57)
No, let's just leave it there. No, no, sorry. I interrupted.
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Sauer (37:15)
that only works if you have so much traffic and so many people coming in that you can see statistical significance in doing that versus I mentioned the eyes on the journey, the different, the five different points where you can lose somebody on a page. If you just look at that and you say, normally we lose 30 % of people after the headline or above the fold and you're at, you're losing 60%.
Matt Edmundson (37:28)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Sauer (37:40)
What will happen is that'll tell you this is where you need to focus. If you can't fix this thing, nothing else matters. This is the biggest leak in the funnel. Then all you need to do is go fix that thing. Now, one way you can fix that is through an AB test. Another way to do it is if it's at 60%, you know, it's failing is to do a complete overall. You don't need to test the old crappy one. That's not working. You know exactly where your problem is. So would you AB if you have like a funnel, like in real life, if you have a funnel and oil just spitting all over the place, you know,
Matt Edmundson (37:51)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm.
Jeff Sauer (38:06)
Would you AB test whether you should plug that hole or not? Or would you just plug the hole? I think AB testing is something that buys people time and it makes them feel smart. But ultimately the reality is it only is reserved for the traffic, high traffic sites that get that. know, if you're a Best Buy or Google, you can AB test and you can actually have significant weight in a couple of days. If you're a small store, you should just plug that hole and figure out the fastest way to plug that hole so you can keep on going and live another day.
Matt Edmundson (38:13)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
That's a really interesting observation. With A-B testing, I think I get the point that actually you have to have data to make data, to have a data significance, don't you, to actually find stuff of meaning. So if you've only got four people coming to your website, I don't know, it's, well, how are you gonna measure it,
So no, I totally get that. I've not heard the argument before that AB testing buys you time, I actually really like. It's almost like a procrastinator's dream because I don't have to make a decision right now. I can put it off and test it against this other thing over here. Yeah. Yeah. Smart procrastination. I've not heard that argument before, so I'm going to remember that one, Right, this is the stage of the...
Jeff Sauer (39:16)
And I sound smart, put on my lab coat, I'm smart.
Matt Edmundson (39:29)
the show where I ask you for a question from me, Jeff, while I remember.
Jeff Sauer (39:34)
Yeah. So this is one you might have heard this before. But is there is there a trend that you that you didn't act on that you regret in the world of e commerce? Is there something that you're just like, man, I wish I would have done that.
Matt Edmundson (39:49)
How long we got. Anyway, I'm not gonna answer that now. I'm gonna get into that on my social media. Come follow me on LinkedIn at Madman's and and I will be answering that question there along with all the other questions I get asked on this show. But that's a really good question. Self reflection. We could even talk about regret. And is it worthwhile? But I'm not a psychologist, so probably should avoid that. But no, I love that question.
Jeff Sauer (40:11)
Haha.
Matt Edmundson (40:15)
Jeff, if people want to find out more about the stuff that you're doing, you know, maybe about the course, maybe about the done with you service or the done for you service, where's the best place to go?
Jeff Sauer (40:28)
Yeah. So I'd love you to go to measure you.com the word measure, and then you at the end.com. You can see it in my shirt as well. If you're watching this on video and we have a free community and that free community is it's packed with resources. have tools that you can use for the e-commerce calculators. How much money should I spend with my ads? How much should I spend with our, how, do I set up Google analytics? How do I tag my site and stuff like that? Lots of free resources. Plus workshops, tons of workshops you can use in order to do
Matt Edmundson (40:41)
Mm.
Jeff Sauer (40:57)
They're 10 to 20 minute videos that tell you to do a single task. How do you do this thing? And that's our free community. We have a student lounge in there too. Thousands of people are in there asking questions about the different platforms around analytics. So our free community has more value than most paid communities. I can promise you that. then if you like that, you'll get on our mailing list and then we'll talk to you about what other offers we have. You can buy individual courses. You can get all of our courses for one lifetime fee.
which a lot of people don't do. you know, we have dozens and dozens of courses that you can get for one charge. We also have coaching through our accelerator program where we'll actually multiple times a week, about 200 times a year, you can jump on with a live call with one of our mentor experts and instructors to get your question answered. And then we do the done for you service as well. That's not for everybody, not for most. But if you really just want this thing done from the people who invented the frameworks and who know how to do this thing, that's where we can help you out as well.
And so that's a little bit of your background of how you can take advantage of what we do at Measure U.
Matt Edmundson (41:59)
and that's measureu.com. U as in, I assume it stands for university or unguarded maybe or unappreciated. I don't know, I'm just wax lyrical about it. But it is, it reminds me of, I don't know why, Geoff, it reminds me of the movie my kids watched when they were younger, the Monsters Inc. And didn't they have Monster U as a sort of, this is the University of Monsters. And I thought, okay, it's brilliant.
Jeff Sauer (42:06)
Yes. If it happened, there you go.
Okay.
Matt Edmundson (42:29)
So measure you. We will of course link to that in the show notes. Are you on LinkedIn? Do you do that whole thing or is it just on the website?
Jeff Sauer (42:37)
Yeah.
Yep. LinkedIn, LinkedIn.com slash Jeff Sauer in slash Jeff Sauer. You can check me out on there. We're trying to get more active and putting stuff out of the community onto our social channels. By the time you watch this, hopefully we'll have some cool videos and clips on there, but we are producing content all the time. We, we love this stuff. We've been doing it for, for a long time. And yeah, we always are just talking about the new trends and what's happening.
Matt Edmundson (42:54)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Sauer (43:01)
with your tools and how to get the most of it and then how to think about measurement in general.
Matt Edmundson (43:05)
Hmm.
Fantastic. Well, we'll link to that as well. The show notes, which you can get along with the transcript and the show notes for free on the website, ecommercepodcast.net. Of course, if you're on an app listening to this, as I know 99.95 % of you are looking at the data that we have, Jeff, everyone's listening to this show on a phone, either with Apple podcast or Spotify, it seems to be the way it works. And so the links will be of course, in the show notes on the app as well, which you can get by scrolling down.
which is a beautiful thing. Jeff, listen, great to meet you, man. Really excited about what you guys are doing. Thanks for coming on the show and clearing up a few things, a few questions that I had in my head, but genuinely lovely to meet you. Thank you so much.
Jeff Sauer (43:49)
Yeah, Matt, this is great. Thanks so much for having me.
Matt Edmundson (43:52)
No worries, listen, we have to do that huge round of applause thing. Yes, there we go. Yeah, there we go. Not too much, but that was enough. Brilliant. That's fantastic. Well, huge thanks again to Jeff for joining me today. Now be follow short for be following. No, no, just be sure to follow the eCommerce podcast where you get your wherever you get your podcast from, because we've got some more great conversations lined up. And of course, I don't want you to miss any of them. And in case no one has told you yet today, let me be
You are awesome. Yes, you are created awesome. It's just a burden You have to bear Jeff's got to bear it. I've got to bear it You've got to bear it as well. Now the e-commerce podcast is produced by pod Junction You can find our entire archive of episodes on your favorite podcast app The theme song was written by Josh Edmondson and as I mentioned the show notes the access to the newsletter and all that sort of stuff is available on our website at e-commerce podcast net
But that is it from me. That is it from Jeff. Thank you so much for joining us. Have a fantastic week wherever you are in the world. I will see you next time. for now.