How To Take Product Into Direct Marketing

Well, hello and welcome to the eCommerce podcast with me, your host, Matt Edmundson.
The podcast is all about helping you deliver eCommerce Wow. I am super, super excited with today's guest, who is Cody Bramlett
from Science Natural Supplements. And we're gonna be chatting about how to take product into direct marketing.
We're talking about all things old school. Definitely, definitely get yourself ready, but before we jump into it,
let me give a quick shout out, uh, to some of the past episodes that we've had here on the eCommerce podcast.
And given that we're talking about how to take a product into, uh, direct marketing
today, I thought it'd be great to mention uh, a podcast we did very, very recently with Evan Padgett on everything you need
to know to take over with subscription commerce, the links there are obvious, uh,
and check out, I've mentioned this before, but check out Maureen Mwangi's, uh, podcast again, uh, from Startup to Growth.
Great show. Now this episode is brought to you by the eCommerce Cohort, which helps you to deliver eCommerce wow
to your customers. Uh, and the eCommerce cohort is basically a lightweight membership, which means it
fits around your schedule, uh, without the overwhelm that can so often come
with an, a lot of online learning stuff. It's a group it's guided monthly sprints, that cycle through
all the key areas of eCommerce. So you kind of go along on this journey and you work on your entire eCommerce.
It's brilliant. You figure it out, uh, for your own business, you get a clear list
of actionable jobs to be done, which is worth its weight in gold. Uh, and you get the support that you need to make it all happen.
So whether you are just starting out in eCommerce or if like me, you are a well established ecommercer, then I would encourage you to check it out, head on
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information, it is like a week or two away from its founding member launch.
Um, I'm fairly sure that the founding member offer is still live.
Um, don't quote me on that, but if it is definitely take advantage of it, uh, you're not gonna wanna miss it, uh, is such good value for money for what you're
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It's something that I am super, super proud of. Let me tell you now today's show.
Intro to Cody
Let's get into this. Cody Bramlett is the founder of a multimillion dollar nutritional supplement empire.
Uh, after years of struggling as a personal trainer and gym owner Cody's life changed when he solved his father's chronic inflammation problem with his own
custom formulated products, this empowered Cody to start growing his company,
science, natural supplements to help other people, uh, get pain, free, lose weight,
and just feel better about themselves. And as a result of starting and scaling this company, Cody now also teaches
other driven entrepreneurs, how to do the same thing with his coaching and his
mastermind called supplement millionaire. So basically I'm really keen to hear what he has to say about
all of this, especially direct marketing, old school stuff. Honestly, grab your night, grab your pens, grab your cup of coffee.
Uh, cuz you are gonna want to take some notes. Let me tell you here's my conversation with Cody.
So Cody, thank you for joining me on the eCommerce podcast. I've been looking forward to this conversation, uh, since we had our
pre-call because well, quite frankly, you have got quite a fascinating story that
I'm hoping that we can dig into, uh, in terms of your own business success and how you've made all this sort of stuff work as well as what you're up to now.
So welcome to the show. Great to. I'm excited to be here. Thanks, Matt. It's, it's fun to be on these podcasts to be able to share these kinds of stories,
Online successes and failures
because you know, so many people have been through, uh, attempts at starting at companies and failed out and I've had massive failures as well, but I've learned
from them rebuilt my company and have continued to succeed over and over again. So I'm, I'm excited here to, to share that.
So people know that you can succeed online. It's not as hard as everybody makes it out to be. Yeah, it's very true.
I've in my bio. I always say to people, you know, and people say, well, who is Matt? And what's going on?
And I'm like, well, I, I like to say that, um, I'm an eCommerce entrepreneur, blah, blah, blah.
And there's always this line I throw in, I've had more failures than I've had successes. It's just, my successes have far outweighed my
failures, if that makes sense. And there's something quite true and quite liberating about
this whole idea of it's okay. If it doesn't go right the first time or the second time I don't.
Is, is that what you found? It's % true. I mean, uh, there's people in, in the industry that I work in the side that
I do more, mostly direct marketing for traffic and, um, people will have unicorns
and sometimes the unicorns are just brand new people out, out of the gate. They have no clue what they're doing and they succeed.
But most of the time it's the, uh, failed times to have that unicorn. It's the idea of, you know, you know, I'm.
I launched my company first shot and I won after years of practice and trial and error, you know, it's, it's that, that kind of concept.
Yeah. Yeah. So those who succeed in the industry in any industry are those who just persevere and keep going, because there's a way to do it.
And if you just did it failed the first time you just did something wrong, it's a matter of just finding out what it was, plug in the hole and do it again.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I couldn't agree more. Consistency is the key, isn't it. And just showing up a hundred percent, uh, just showing up is, is, and
we say this all the time and, and people don't believe it, actually, they genuinely don't believe it. And it's like, well, uh, you know, that didn't, didn't work that time
and we lost some money and it's like, well, but what did you learn? And, and how could you, you know, change as a result of what you've learned.
So going forward, it might have a bigger chance of success, but it, it's a really hard mindset I think, for people to get into.
So do you, why do you think that. I think it comes down to just the way society's top people to
think and what success can be. So if you, if your idea of success is a six figure job, a hundred thousand
dollars a year, $a year, or something like that, then your whole goal is of making that kind of income.
And you're constantly looking for that income. And if you try starting your own company, you will not make that income initially.
Right? You're gonna probably lose money, potentially work for free. And that scares people away immediately. They're like, well, gosh, I could just go get a job.
It's easier. Mm-hmm of course it's easier, but long term, it's not long term. It's not gonna financially take you where you wanna be.
Um, so yeah, it definitely comes down to how people have been taught in society and where they're thinking about what successes a lot of people I work with.
I first asked them what are their goals and why, why, why do you
wanna have an online business? What is the actual reasons you're gonna achieve? Why make a lot of money?
How much is a lot of money? Yeah. Million dollars. Have you ever made a million dollars before? No. So what is it?
The million dollars are gonna buy you? Well, I wanna have X, Y, and Z. You don't need a million dollars for that. Mm-hmm a lot of times you don't.
So it's just a matter of truly understanding that and working your way back and that'll help give you the drive to be able to persevere through the hardships.
That's a really interesting point that you've raised there because, and I like that question. Why, why do you want to do this?
And it's, it's one of those questions. I think people rarely ask themselves is why do I, why
do I need the million dollars? Why, why do I need the fancy car that the million dollars is gonna buy me? What is it about that, um, that that is driving me.
Why, why, why? And I think that, that simple question really helps people drill
down to figure out who they are, why they're here and what they stand for. And I think so often, uh, we just.
I dunno about you Cody, but I see a lot of people just jumping straight in without really understanding those questions.
Uh, and whenever we've done coaching with clients, no, no, let's stop right at the beginning. Let's what let's answer this question.
Why what's it all about? So we know we know what success really is for you. Yeah. It's a hundred percent.
I, I, so I good, a little back backstory about me. So, um, I was a salesperson, you know, won the magazine competitions in high, you
Cody's backstory
know, middle school, elementary school, chocolate competitions in baseball. I sold all those, those things and did very good job at it.
My, uh, first real job outta college was selling at US food service, selling food and restaurants and stuff like that.
And, um, The idea of starting my own business came very early. And so I joined Bill Glazer and Dan Kennedy Masterminds.
I was on newsletters. I was all excited about, um, direct marketing, marketing, old school, direct marketing. Oh yeah.
Old school. Yeah. Yeah. Love that stuff. And um, I love the idea of swipe and deploy. They get a good idea from one industry and deploying it a
different way in the new industry. Um, but in that whole process, I watched the people start businesses and one of,
one of them in particular, she started a gym and had her entire business plan. Right. Mm-hmm I had still don't have a business plan because I was, I didn't want to
go down in that thought process of, you know, what's the reason why to think, have to think internally requires so much energy mm-hmm and self-judgment
and questioning if, if this is right or wrong or what it is, it's something that we, as humans, we avoid, we like to be told what to do to get it done.
We don't like to look deep to understand why we're doing it. Mm-hmm um, and it's taken a long lot of work now. Yes.
My companies have more of a structure now, but the whole idea of that initial like, you know, what are we doing as a company and why, and what, what did
we exist and was the differentiator. I didn't have that for years. Um, and even right now, it's not at the point where a lot of people would have
it when they're first starting out. So when, when I do work with people too, and I'm giving them advice and coaching them, it's that main question.
It's why are you doing this? What is the reason a recent guy, he's like, I want a hundred thousand dollars a year. Like why came down the fact that he wants to be able to give money
to his kids so they can survive each month on their own as well. He wants to take care of his two kids and himself. That's really interesting, isn't it?
Yeah. So it's, it's not a hundred thousand dollars. It's being able to take care of his two kids in himself. So the, the, the number is, is a fictitious goal to hit mm-hmm.
But as long as he can achieve that, he'll be successful. And if you know what that is, you won't be disappointed by failure.
So you didn't hit a million dollars a year, but you did a half million. What did you used to make? ?
Like that's a success times anybody's where anybody could tell, could speak about. So it's just, um, understanding.
What it really is, and being able to really march towards that and then, um, of course, modify and retarget yourself so you can keep marching forward.
Oh, that in itself is worth the price of admission. Not that we charge people listening to the podcast, but if
we did, that would be worth it. Um, so you've sat under then, uh, some remarkable names that, I mean, I've been
around business for a little while and I, I I've heard the names that you've mentioned, like Dan Kennedy and so forth.
Um, and you used this phrase, uh, whether intentionally or not that I, and I just note that jotted it down, um, direct marketing for traffic.
Um, and so I wanna dig into this a little bit, because this is a bit more of your background.
It. Can I use the phrase that direct marketing is a bit old school for what we in a digital industry.
Yes. So, and this intrigues me. So let's dig into some of these things that you've learned, uh, sitting under
eCommerce sales vs direct marketing sales
the, the likes of, of Dan and so on and so forth and how you've bought them across. Yeah, definitely.
And guys, I did not invent this. I was not the first person to do it. I just grabbed onto the supplement space in the industry and was one of
the first dozen or so that did this in like and was able to start
building a company on top of that. But let's, let's look at the difference. So right now we have eCommerce and then I call direct marketing.
Those are two different channels. Mm-hmm eCommerce is a, an e-commerce page Shopify page, right?
You have your product description, you got some information, you got some customer reviews, bada bing bada boom, that's it. Maybe a five minute video on there that kind of describes the product.
So it's all benefit driven. This does this, this does that. It's good for this. It's good for that very simple bullet point kind of conversation.
Yeah. Now, in order to get that product sold out there, you need to have an influencer. You need to have someone with a face or traffic that they people know like and
trust them to then say, Hey, buy this product or you have to go online and create an ad campaign on Facebook, Google
tikTok, whatever it is that has compelling ads that get someone to realize that, oh, this deal, this product, this something is worth
buying and I need to, I need to get it. And it needs to be able to solve that problem. So you have to understand what their problem is.
You have to understand the right traffic source. You have to nail it all down perfectly. Um, you have to make sure you don't lose money on the, on the front end on that.
And then a lot of this comes down to that whole idea of seven touches. It takes seven touches to sell somebody mm-hmm . So you have to have a campaign
and a marketing concept set up that allows for that entire process. Now direct marketing is a one shot.
It's a shotgun blast to get a customer in one, one touch. And so there is two ways of doing direct marketing for
health and supplement offers. Okay. Um, and I'll go over the first or standard one, and that is what's
called a long form sales page. People do this with a TSL, which is text or a VSL, which is video.
And those are those minute long videos that you might get tricked into when you're clicking on Facebook and it has like a countdown like boop, and
then like a lady goes ha on my, on my wedding anniversary, I tripped and fell down and thought I would never come back from this until I discovered this
amazing secret that changed my life. And then it goes into the, this story and the text sales face scripts by this hands of it.
Uh, I'm not, I'm not a writer, but I've, I've watched and read thousands of 'em probably. Um, and so those stories are how you help someone know like, and trust
you in one sitting mm-hmm . And so this idea is creating an entire story
and a lot of times they're based on reality and that's what I stand behind. Everything should be based on a real story. Yeah. And a real person.
Um, cuz you know, just making stuff up is kind of lame. Um, it's kind of used car salesman kind of status.
It should have something meat and potatoes behind it but it's really creating that connection and letting the customer feel like they are relate to somebody.
So there's just a problem. A good example is a, there's a program out there for like pelvic floor stuff for women, right.
Mm-hmm and, uh, it really goes into helping women with this very unique and, and, and kind of like shameful issue that they're worried about because
of, um, P themselves kind of stuff. Mm-hmm . And so it teaches them how to do stuff and they have supplements for as well.
And it's, it's a great product, great concept. And it really creates a storyline of like the worst day, worst scenario
possible to happen to this woman. And it, it just kind of lets the reader go, oh, God. Yeah, that's happening before, or I've come close to that.
And they really create that connection. And that's that know, like and trust. mm-hmm, , You're able to build that connection with, with a
story kinda like right now I'm building a connection with you. You're listening to my story, you're going, oh, I like Cody this is interesting.
Um, so then it goes into there the mechanism and explains the benefits of the product and you try and make it unique.
So, you know, uh, turmeric it's great for anti-inflammation mm-hmm but why can we go three or four layers deeper into the science, into the
actual studies to explain that. And can we, um, coin a, a terminology for it that makes us sound unique.
Mm-hmm are we a sales page once that was a, for a thyroid supplement based on the best selling Throid supplement on Amazon.
Um, I had just amazing amount of customers say how great it was, but we, uh, used a car method, C A R and the car method had to do with driving with
the analogy it all worked and people connected their brain and it, it dumbed down the science in a way that allowed them to understand mm-hmm um, Then you
sell 'em on the product with a deal. And this long form sales page allows for that one sale to happen initially.
And then once they purchase you, then offer up sales. Hey, would you like to buy more of the same? Hey, this other product could help. Hey, this other product also helps and you give people opportunity to buy more.
And these types of funnels can generate $to $average order values where you're bringing about a hundred to $profit per order.
Wow. So that gives you the ability to pay very high ad costs in Facebook,
Google, YouTube, or through direct marketing with affiliates. My specialty is finding affiliates with similar companies, health and supplement
companies, and having them promote your products to their existing customers. And that's how I do most of my sales.
Wow. So, okay. Um, So this long form content is still online, um, in my head, I mean, just
going back to the direct note, are you, you're not mailing out letters to people you're doing it online and you're still driving traffic to them, right?
Yep. It's just moving from the idea back in the day of doing out doing letters and things like that to emails.
And so the emails can be short and simple. Get someone to click. They can be long and compelling to get someone to be invested
before they land on the page. And then it's just from there getting them to read the sales page, watch the sales
video and, and, and make the purchase. You typically see about a to % conversion rate these pages.
So it's not a massive number, but when you're able to pay out a hundred dollars commission to the traffic source, it's makes sense all day long for the traffic
to send you so back to the traffic source. Right. We talked, you said earlier, direct marketing is a traffic source, right?
That idea is really what allows us to get a massive influx of customers.
Now, at the beginning, you may not make very much money, but you can on the reorgs, you can on the subscription plan, you can on the
secondary products, you sell them. Um, and it really allows for you to get in front of a lot of different places.
So it, in this space, um, there's hundreds of hundreds of people that have email lists. I mean, I have about five email lists ranging from contacts
to about a hundred thousand contacts. Mm-hmm and all these people are, look, don't have enough products to promote
internally to send an email every day. So they're looking for third party offers that convert.
And so you have, I have a whole team of people who go out and just try and find these companies to get them to promote us
and to make sure that our offers convert well for them. Cause I have about five different offers. You know, I have weight loss offers.
I have offers for pain. I have thyroid one. I have generic offers for turmeric and moringa.
Um, so it's really determining what offer fits best for each traffic source and then helping them find reasons to mail to your offer multiple times a month.
Well, Cody, there's a lot going on here. Uh which, um, which I'm keen to get into now it's worth stating, uh, again, if
you are, if you're tuning in a little bit later, you zoned out in the introduction. Cody is involved in the supplement business, um, and you have built up your
empire for want of a better expression, um, selling supplements, um, which
you started in using more of the um, long form sales, either text or videos to, to sort of drive people, to
buy these, these products, um, using some of the direct, uh, marketing methods. Yep.
So, Cody, let me understand. I've got, let me just summarize, make sure I've got this right. You have got, well, I would technically call a sales page.
Um, you've got a long form sales page, um, uh, or a landing page or the people have called them and that can either be video or it can be text we're sending
traffic to that page, but that page is predominantly telling story and it's
telling story of how people have gone, undergone a transformation they've sort of gone from point a to point B in
their life because of your product or your intervention that has helped them. They were suffering with X and now they're, you know, they're, they're
doing really great over here and you are telling the stories in these sort of long form sales pages, um, and to drive traffic to that sales page, your
particular specialty is finding affiliates that wanna send their tribe to that page.
And they earn a high level of commission because you've got high profits in that typical average, uh, sale.
Am I right? A hundred percent. %. Whew. I feel like I was just in a school test.
Um, so, so I'm curious, let's start then.
What makes a successful sales page
Uh, if I can, with this sales page, what are some of the things that you are looking for on that sales page you are thinking about I've.
I mean, you've sort of given us a broad brush strokes with, I'm looking for a story, a transformative story, but what are some of the things that your, you
think that sales page really needs to. %. So I'm gonna do for those of you who are watching this, I'm gonna do a little
screen sharing at the same time, so you can see a successful page, but I'm also gonna try and articulate as best I can for those who are listening.
So one of our new offers is called Beach Ready Bites. It's a probiotic gummy, the, the actual enzymes in it helped, uh, prep,
your digestive system for digesting. It's kinda like when you have a salad before you eat, it helps your body prep to digest everything quicker.
Mm-hmm um, and it helps people lose weight in that aspect. Um, so the sales page starts out with the, the headline and the lead.
Um, so this, this headline is that captivating thing. That's like this thing that to change your life or this story that, that, you
know, helps someone lose pounds or it's very sensationalized mm-hmm . Um, and then we usually start out the story with the thing that destroyed the.
This particular one, the, the child said, mommy, am I gonna be fat? Like you, like someone made fun of you in school kind of thing.
Yeah. And from there, the story goes into a little bit of reduction about the actual customer about the actual story person.
And she goes, oh, and I figured out this whole transformation, but kind of let me walk you through my, my journey. And then she, she kind of, you know, will hint at the, the idea and the solution
as she goes along as the mechanism the whole time, we're not calling it a product, it's just a solution for all. We know it could be a workout program, it could be a supplement,
it could be pretty much anything. So from there, the story breaks down and we just tell the story of the person.
Um, this is how you're getting to know, like, and trust the person, understand their journey, understand what they went through. It starts to go into the science of what's been causing the problem and making sure
that the reader knows it's not their fault, but it's something that they didn't have control or knowledge about. Mm-hmm , you know, like my parents were brought up on
eat, whatever you want, right. Taco bell who cares? Food's food calories in calories out. We now know that calorie's not a calorie, right?
Eating gluten and, and carbs versus, you know, lean meats and vegetables far superior and different in your diet and how your body responds to that.
So, um, it's not your fault. This is, this is facilities that are new, that are changing the world
and can make everything better. And then we really get into the mechanism of what makes that special and which is referring back to actual scientific studies from
universities, from wherever it is. And a lot of the writers we work with, they know all the websites to go to, to review these studies.
Um, and then from there we go into the actual product reveal and we go, tada, here's the product.
And the product's amazing. It changes your life. It's on sale now there's a massive guarantee.
You know, it's a short inventory and supply for this product. That's true. It's really hard to get. Um, and it's a one time discount and it's gonna change your life and there's no
risk to you and buy the product mm-hmm And then from there people buy, it goes to an upsell and it's like,
Hey, now you can get the product at a discount because you're part of the family have more of the same.
And then if they say, uh, no, thanks to that. They get sent to a down sale. It goes, Hey, how about less or a cheaper deal?
And then after that, if they, uh, if they, uh, keep going down the funnel by way, they can exit time. They want it goes, Hey, try this thing too.
It's gonna help make it even better. And, and ideally you wanna go through about three upsells and down sells.
So you're selling three different products in the funnel. Yeah. And that allows people really to build that connection. And that's kind of the structure of the sales page and the funnel behind it.
The actual upsells and down sells are very rudimentary and basic. There's not a lot of, um, uh, magic about it.
The sales page is truly where, um, the, the magic happens.
And then that's the key point is really finding either a writer who can help you put it together and, and do it correctly.
You gotta find writers who are in communities and have their own within their own coaching programs who are intelligent, who have made pages that do
a million dollars because, um, I've had a lot of trash pages sold to me before.
And so it really takes finding a, a writer who is quality or learning the skillset yourself, um, to be able to put stuff together.
And that's one version. And then I wanted to show the second version, which is actually what I think a lot of people in the ecommerce space might like to do more.
And I call this a long form ecommerce page. Okay. And so this is a turmeric offer by one, get three free.
And, um, basically it's a video of me for five minutes explaining the benefits of turmeric.
It is a longer page talking about the company and what turmeric does for you. And then it has the buy option for buy one, get three free, uh, same thing, the
upsells and down cells, more of the same. We do the same sale for the upsells. You know, we tested omega three and probiotics and Dasai and MEA and the
backend on the upsells and down cells. You can kind of put whatever you want in the back, but this idea of a shorter
form eCommerce page, I think is truly the almost easiest way to start.
Cause if someone's figured out how to get traffic from Facebook to like a Shopify page and it's successful, I bet million bucks that drive into a offer like this
will probably double their profits. That's a really interesting point that, um, uh, I'm just bringing it
back to e-commerce for one second, that you've made there about, and thank you for showing those, by the way.
Mm-hmm just so you, if you are listening and you didn't get a chance to see them, um, I think could, he did a very good explanation of what you saw on the screen,
but we will put screenshots, we will put links to those web pages in the show notes and you'll be able to access them.
Or of course, just turn on over to YouTube, watch the video. Uh, it's all there. Um, so going back to, to what you mentioned then about eCommerce,
one of the fascinating things for me is the experimentation in how long an eCommerce page should be.
Uh, and we have tested thousands of different combinations over the years, you know, short, long image here and all that sort of stuff.
I won't bore you with all the stuff that we've tested. But one of the things that I do know is actually long form eCommerce
pages, usually convert at a higher rate than short form eCommerce pages,
especially when you start to integrate in those pages, the, the old school
method of direct marketing, you know, in the sort of the letters that they used to send you and you, you bring those with the headlines and, uh,
they can convert super, super well. I mean, super, super well. So, and this is what you've discovered, right?
This is what you were, what you were saying, and this is an easy place to start. Um, but, uh, Mr.
Cody, I'm, I'm kind of curious. I, I can just hear, you know, all the listeners go, this is all very great.
Um, uh, the, the primary question people are gonna have though is how do I get started, right?
How to get started with direct marketing
Where, and, and for, and you mentioned about finding a writer and how, how actually that's not straightforward.
So what tips do you have for people who perhaps would go, want to go find a writer that can help them write good long form content?
Definitely. So first things first, I'm gladly share more about it later if you want Matt, but I definitely coach people how to do this.
So I, I have a whole system and procedure of doing that. But in short, how do you find quality writers?
Number one, you need to first find what you want in your why, right? Mm-hmm . So if you, if you, if you don't have a product, you don't have
anything yet, you gotta discover that. Um, that's very important. If you already have a product and you're like, Hey, this thing does well, I'm selling a lot of it
and I wanna make the page better. The first step is to understand what you have and what you don't have.
So looking at pages like the example of the term work page, or any kind of eCommerce pages that are crushing it, uh, you could find online, you can tell it
because the ads are going constantly or it's on, uh, click think or buy goods. Those are lot of the direct marketing affiliate platforms where most
people put their offers, finding pages that work that are doing well, and then reverse engineering them.
So, uh, long form ecommerce page is more like Legos stacked on block together.
Yeah. It's like an ecommerce page. There are little block sections, a long form sales page that is a indepth story.
So understanding like our turmeric, you know, it's got the video and the headline with the call to action of, with the deal they're getting.
And then the video talks about what they're getting and why. And it does a little tease in there too.
You can always watch the video. It's got a good script. I had a wonderful person named Mary Agnes who gave me tips on making that script a little better.
Um, we then go into the benefits and what it's used for, we then go into the company and who it is and who it's for and how to use it.
And then we give a deal and then they see the, the sale deal. So like, okay, cool. So you're not sold something beginning, a lot of e-commerce pages
have the buy option on the top. So I land the page $Nope. I'm done.
Mm-hmm you want them to read and get connected as they're, as they're going in with them to get know, like, and trust you before you try and sell 'em.
Uh, imagine. So I, I was, I worked at US food service. I sold food, to restaurants, I used to do million a year in San Diego
when I was outta college in that job. And you can't walk into a restaurant in the back kitchen, be like, I got steak peace for a great deal.
They'll be like, who are you? Why are you here? And get outta the kitchen. Mm-hmm so you first gotta.
Get to know who it, who is, who is the person you're talking to. So that way you can actually talk to the right person.
You're prepared for the actual conversation, cuz you know who you're talking to. Are they the person doing the orders?
Are they the owner of the restaurant? Are they the chef? Are they the line cook? Are they the manager? Who's the one placing the orders.
So you can speak to them correctly. What matters to them? Right? If it's the cook, he wants quality.
If it's the manager, he wants best price. If it's the owner, he just wants to not deal with anything, you know?
Yeah. So you gotta understand what the person actually wants. You're solving their problem. And then you have to get them to feel that you're gonna co complete
all that before you sell them. Hey see, that's a really interesting point.
Isn't it? Because you are right. Every traditional, every standard eCommerce website, um, uh, is on the
base of the price and the product is there. And, and I think it's been done like that because of convenience for people
that want to buy the product again. Right? So your all, every eCommerce website that I know is built around this
whole idea that the person coming wants to actually buy your product. Um, we call it the knowledge trust factor, but the people that come to your site
that don't know you, they don't trust you and they don't know their, your product and the very first thing they see is your products and a price.
Well, that's what they're making the judgment on. Right. Um, and so one of the things that I like about what you've done is you
flip that around on your head and you put the price at the bottom. So my question here is do people actually scroll down when you do that?
Yes. So as long as the each section you're looking at each Lego block is compelling
and there's a reason to scroll. So like, whenever I look at a page I'll, I'll do control shift, I, and look at the page via mobile two.
If you're looking at the page, is there something I want to see at the bottom or continue reading? So if you're looking at it, the next subject line or image or
question should be there, oh, what's this scroll up, right. Scroll down, whatever they're doing. So the, the idea is it needs to be compelling so they keep doing that.
Um, we typically see these on our long form sales page is about % of people make it to the first buy box mm-hmm
And then by the time you have the second buy box, you're down to like % and then it's just gone. So majority of people are gonna see the initial product.
And then, and then, uh, about % later, we'll will get to the next spot and decide if they wanna purchase or not.
So, you know, you, you give 'em as much as you can, you sell the product and then you reinforce it.
Here's why it's so special. Here's why it's no risk to you. Here's the benefits again, buy box again.
And then if you have more content, you put more content there and then final buy box on the bottom of the page. So I, I typically wanna see two or three bisections on any kind of page,
because it gives that opportunity for someone who's on the fence to keep going and just kind of think about it as, um, a used car deal, right?
You go into the dealership, the person makes friends with you shows you all the best cars lets you sit in the cool Ferrari and that neat.
Oh well you want, well, you came for a Honda, let's go check it out. The Honda. And now you're buddy's with a guy and now you wanna help him out and
you want to get the deal mm-hmm and then the price comes out and then you're on the fence and they go, cool, well, I can give you new tires and I can give you a day oil change guarantee.
And then you're like, yeah. Okay, I'm sold. So it's that, it's that entire process of building that friendship
and giving someone the deal and then sweetening the deal at the same time. So that way, uh, they feel confident about the purchase.
Very good. Very good. Right. And on that bomb shell, we are just gonna take a moment to hear from
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so right, Cody.
Does long form copy really work?
Um, so before we were talking about sort of long form e-commerce pages, um, and how, uh, these pages, you know, you're, you're very much
taking people on a journey, right? Um, And you are sort of giving them a reason to keep scrolling
and then a good website, like yours is % of the people are gonna scroll down and, and see that box.
Um, and you know, you can test this and you can see whether the conversion is good or not. And you know, if you've got a good copywriter, great.
Um, it's gonna help you, I guess, one of the questions, um, in my head, uh, and maybe this is just me being a bit British, right?
Maybe it's my English reservedness coming out. I'm always skeptical of the sensationalist headlines.
Um, and I would have a hard time, uh, saying, you know, take this pillar
is gonna radically change your life. Um, unless I knew for a fact it was gonna gonna do that.
So how do you, am I too reserved? What have you found with that kind of, um, headline writing scheme?
% works. It's a matter of if you wanna stand behind that for your company or not. And so, in my opinion, there's the very sensationalized stories.
There's the scientific article stories, and then there's the, um, good company or good deal stories.
Mm-hmm . And so if like you're doing the turmeric deal, it's, it's the deal buy one, get three free.
That's the headline, right? Yeah. So if, if you're doing the, the reason, if it's something that's already in
the zeitgeist, when people understand it, then it's easier to do that. If you're having to make that story, you need to grab someone, uh, good example.
We can do it recording too, but, um, there's, uh, I think it's rounders the
movie about like that's rounders or it's one of those stock trading movies.
Mm-hmm beginning of the movie is a woman doing a downhill ski competition, like on the Olympics and then crash.
Has nothing to do with the entire movie. It's just so intense. It gets you completely like, and then it rolls into the movie and
you're like completely, oh, isn't that Molly's game pulled in. Which one is that? Molly's game. Was that the one?
Cause she, she was a ski the poker player. Yes.
Yeah. Yeah. So that idea, but it is this sensational exciting, like powerful thing. And then yeah, it just draws you in and you're and you are.
Yeah. And that's the key. Yeah. Yeah. That's the key. That's the key, right? That's the, the, that's what the headlines got to do.
That's what you've gotta do in an instant. You've gotta draw them in. Um, and you've, you've gotta get people's attention, uh, you know, I
was, um, I was curious when you said you'd list, you know, you'd been into Dan Kennedy's masterminds and stuff, so let's just sort of switch gears
slightly and, and go to direct marketing. And Dan Kennedy for if memory serves me, right. Was a brilliant copywriter.
I mean, the man knew how to write stuff and I've, I've actually got some of his types.
Uh that's how old I am. I have tapes, uh, you know, with his lessons on, what are some of the key
Lessons learned from old school marketing masters
things that you learned from these sort of old marketing masters, you know, the old school marketing masters, um, you know, what are what's, maybe
you one or two of the key principles that you sort of that understood the test of time for you that you remember hearing in light bulbs going off
and you've carried that through in, in everything that you've done. The one and only thing, swipe and deploy.
Swipe and deploy. Okay. Excellent. Take what's working in an industry, a different industry
and make it work for you. Mm-hmm so Bill Glazer brought it up about how he would take.
Uh, deals from Walmart and car deals and apply it to his men's, um, clothing business
cause he had a men's warehouse kind of kind of thing. So having that idea of a coupon, having the idea of a reason for a sale is the
captivating reason for, for his business. That's like the tumeric buy one, get three free mm-hmm the reason for that
sale is that the reason they're there is because there's three units free. No one does that. So you can take something that's more well known of a product and create
a reason why, you know, this is, this is because it's my birthday.
This is because it's Halloween. This is because of a, a certain holiday or thanks. It's because we've helped a thousand people lose pounds.
You know, those kinds of those kinds of captivating ideas. The other idea, too, you can take the concept away from that idea of that
sensationalist and pose a question. Can this pill really help you lose pounds in two weeks?
Copy says no, but you just completely took someone on the idea of can you? That's a pretty good way of doing it as well. Yeah. Yeah. I've not thought about it.
So it's doing that, that counter, that counter and is, is easy and not sure. Is it worth testing? Probably.
Yeah. I, I definitely wanna find out is, you know, you read that. Like, I don't know. I, I, I do want to know though, so, uh, yeah, , that's, that's quite clever.
Swipe and deploy method
So this swipe and deploy methodology then, um, where you see something
working in one industry and you and you, and you take that and, and apply that to yourselves and you, you know, your own business and stuff.
How have you used that to build, um, your, uh, your supplement.
So a lot of it comes down to seeing what works and then determining if you're gonna position yourself in that space.
Um, it could be used also in, um, in email marketing to promote your offer, um, with different kinds of promotions or timing of the year, or
reasons why to get someone to email. Um, I've always loved the accidental email. You send out an email that's kind of half broken, and then you send another
email at months later and be like, oops, the last email wasn't finished. I didn't finish what I was saying. Here's the rest of the email and the other, the bio again.
So you get an excuse to talk to someone again. Yeah. Um, They're actually quite converting emails as well.
They, they are, but I love the subject line test. Yeah. That one opens really high . Yeah, it's really funny thing.
I'm sorry. We sent it way too early. Here's the rest of the email. And so the open rate of both emails goes up because everybody wants to
see what you wrote in the first one. That's maybe not in the second one. Uh, yeah. And you are in their inbox twice, legitimately and it's is
quite a fascinating strategy. I think the broken email. Yeah. Yep. And then swiping too, like what's working.
Is there, um, a particular offer that you want to try and emulate or have like get into so Ric for example, right?
I've had people that wanted to start throwing turmeric, uh, offer after how successful mine was for.
And I just leaned over and said to them, I'm like, great go for it. But I would encourage you to use mine as a benchmark and keep promoting me
until you figure out you can actually beat my offer and of the five big dogs. I know that did that. I only one actually had an offer that continued on and did well.
So, um, you know, being able to swipe and deploy is important. You type the idea and run it in your own way, but you gotta make sure that
it actually is also more financially advantageous than doing other things they could have just kept promoting me and gotten free money for just copying
and pasting an email in a, in a process. Yeah. That's interesting one, isn't it? Because again, that's the danger of these sort of offers, I guess.
How do you avoid the race to the bottom? Right. So if you are looking at something and someone's done the, you know, buy
one, get three free and say, well, do I do buy one and get four free? And then some fellows I'll buy one and get five free.
And it starts to become a bit ridiculous after a while. So how do you, how do you avoid the race to the bottom?
Definitely. So I've actually not experienced that. So even with the buy one, get three free, I've seen one person try to
emulate me, another person trying do a buy one, get two, three, and different products and their offers. I don't know where they are today.
I've never seen anybody promote them. So I think that in the affiliate space, if you were directly ripping someone
off, then the people who are promoting the offers are not gonna like that. They're gonna be annoyed for the fact that you are copying this or
the person that they promote as well. So there is a very tight-knit community of, you know, three, people
that know and trust each other and wanna make sure we all do better. And those who just straight up copy, they can go to hell.
Now, there is a handful of people who can drive their own traffic through Facebook or Google, and they can do whatever they want.
And they typically just do what they want. They don't deal with our side of the affiliate industry and we just kind of,
uh, let them play in their own fields. And it, it just kind of is what it is. The idea of race to the bottom doesn't necessarily exist either because, um,
for example, that term work offer. When I first launched it in it was doing $$um, average order value.
So a hundred people bought on average was $per person because they would buy upsells mm-hmm . We now have that funnel converting at $average order value.
Oh, wow. So it's a matter of perfecting the page and the funnel over and over and
over again, you're talking about minor headline changes, font changes, color changes, button, color changes, um, popups instead for down sells, instead
of down sell pages, you know, all these little tiny minute things you change over and over and over again. And of course, retest continuously is how you're able to keep refining something.
So you're more likely gonna see offer, um, churn and offer decline because the page has not been made better than anything else.
Um, that's gonna be the biggest, um, biggest killing part. The final thing that kind of can happen with that, um, swipe and deploy concept
is like, for example, I an offer called bio harmony that we renamed bio switch, and then we called it something else.
And every time it did better, but then not as good. And now it's just kind of dead and that's because the actual mechanism and
how people are actually achieving their goals has been copied so many times that although the story's compelling, when they get the actual product itself, it's just
been done over and over and over again. So that one's kind of gone, but it's done million in three years.
So oh, well what, a way to end. Yeah, exactly.
Is the expression. So do you use any specific software to do this testing?
Testing sales pages
Yeah. So in terms of testing, uh, there's not a software out there that works yet. I'm actually trying to build something that I could potentially turn into
a service, um, because there's just certain metrics that are not as, that
are incredibly important in your funnel. Like a lot of people. Care about, uh ROAS but like that doesn't, I need to know profit per
order, per traffic source, per per offer funnel mm-hmm . And so that's the key to knowing those metrics.
Um, so the best software to use as an affiliate marketer, there's two of them click bank or buy goods.
These are systems that you get approved. You put your entire funnel up, like the one I talked about earlier, and then they
will manage the credit card processing. They will pay out the traffic sources and track all the track, all the
clicks and sales and conversions. Um, they'll do rev share or, or, um, or a CPA. CPA is just a flat rate pay, no matter what happens.
And at the end of the day, it's the same. We just doing the law of large number averages to figure it out ahead of time.
Um, and then, uh, so they take care of all that. And all you have to do is get the traffic to the page, make call people,
make friends, join, join different Facebook groups, masterminds coaching communities, and, and make friends to get you to promote your offer.
Um, Once you have that you can export the data directly. And, you know, there's, there's ways of setting it up.
Like I had really long, long name, each product code name had a really long string. So I knew exactly what page it was on the price, the conversion.
And I would sort do some little V lookups on Excel. Boom, make, make my numbers out. So that's kind of the easiest way to pull your data out to understand it.
But it's important to understand what you're looking at. If you're doing a split test on the front end on the, on the
sales page, um, then are you, is your conversion rate increasing?
Are you affecting the total average order value or profit per order or is it increasing or decreasing because of what's happening on the front end page
and same thing for every page you do test. And it's also important to test methodically slow.
You know, I wanna like throw things at my D my, um, my testing team to have them test. And they're like, cool.
We'll do it one at a time. It'll take us two months because if you do it all at once, the whole design could do better.
but why? Because if you don't know, then how can you apply that tech, that, that concept to everything else you do?
Mm-hmm yeah, that's a very good point. That's a very good point. So how do you, how do you, um, I guess find the affiliates, uh, that
How to find affiliates
are gonna work well for you, right? How do you, how do you, how do you mobilize your affiliates?
Definitely. So when I first started out, I had my tumeric offer I didn't know what affiliates were. My brother was in the space selling a workout program and he is like,
oh, I'll be your affiliate manager. And so he basically just would send my, the emails that I'd written up that did
pretty well when we tested it on his email list and he'd send that and the tracking link out to people and that's all he did.
That's all affiliate manager really ever does. But he had, he had been able to get to know these people with his offer for the two years prior.
And so it was like, Hey, he's my brother run his thing. And then it worked and they're like, cool, thanks. And then after about a year, I finally got the, got the hang of it, figured out
what to do and what it takes is finding someone to help you test your offer. To know that it can, it's converting correctly and paying out correctly
and you're not losing money. So that's step one. You can do that through joining, uh, coaching programs, masterminds or
different kind of community groups where people help each other in that aspect. There's tons of Facebook groups out there that people just support each other.
Um, and then after that, it's going in same thing, joining groups of communities, of offer owners or affiliate managers.
I mean, there's one, uh, group, uh, uh, it's called traffic tribe, this lady. Amber Spears runs it, all my people i, I, I, and my group
and my community join it too. There's like affiliate managers there. So once you're in there, you just present your offer and share, and you'd
start making sales calls and trying to get on zoom calls with people to get them to know like, and trust you mm-hmm . And then you go to conferences
like affiliate summit, west, east, you go to traffic and conversion. Um, you go to all these different kinds of conferences and when you get there,
you go and meet as many people as you can. And I tell my wife, I'm going to a conference to shake hands and kiss babies.
You know, you're trying to make friends and be like a politician to make everyone love you. So that way you can, you know, hopefully help by giving them an
amazing offer that converts well, and on the back end, make money yourself. So it's, it's going out and beating the pavement, asking for referrals, asking
everybody in the community where it's at, um, and, and, and paying attention. You can't be quiet. You gotta be very proactive.
That's really, yeah. And that's an important point, isn't it? Because I think, um, it's not E it's not as, it's not like it used to be where
you could just go, listen, if you're an affiliate, I'm go to this website and I'm gonna put my information on there and they fill people would come and go
yeah, I've got a list of a hundred thousand people. I'll send 'em to that website. Uh, I think everyone's a lot more choosy now, aren't they?
And a lot more, um, sort of a lot more aware of what they're doing, which I think
is, is, is predominantly a good thing. Um, so the you're out there, you're pounding the pavement
you are kissing the babies and all that sort of stuff, which is . So I never thought I'd heard that phrase on an eCommerce, but anyway, uh, you
go there doing all of those things. Um, you're building your affiliate network. These guys are marketing. Are you doing your own marketing as well?
Like, are you still doing Facebook and Google and referring traffic to those funnels or are you a hundred percent relying on affiliate market?
So, if you have Facebook, Google, YouTube experience, you should be managing yourself. I do not, and I've never been pro at it.
And the time we attempted it, we quite broke my Facebook account and I can't be on Facebook anymore promoting ads.
yay. So I learned, I learned through one of my mistakes that you need to make sure you're partnering and working with people who know what's going on.
So I typically look for, um, agencies or partnerships with people that can drive traffic in those, in those areas for my, each of my offers, because
I just don't have the skillset. Mm-hmm um, it's one of those things where I've learned that, trying to learn how to do everything, you're not gonna succeed cuz you can't do it all.
You know, my role is the CEO. My goal is to set the vision of the company, the targets of the company and make sure we have the right people in the right seats and that they
are inspired to get their job done. So I've had to reposition myself into that concept because I used
to try to do everything and there's people out there for or a hundred thousand dollars who will do five or times better than you and pay for
their salary, you know, oodles over. So it's understanding, um, who can best help you? How can you inspire them and work together and or work with the third
party agencies that drive that stuff. I love the affiliate stuff in house. I think that's important cuz you have to someone that cares about you.
Um, but you know, when it comes to Google and YouTube and Facebook and things like that, it's just a little out of our wheelhouse currently.
yeah, yeah. No and that's very, I'm the same way. Uh, there are definitely better people at it than me, so let
them be better at it than I am. Uh, and I'll just smile and wait. Uh, as they're doing it.
So you, you are using traditional marketing methods. You're using, um, the affiliates. Can I ask, is there a specific platform that you are using to build the
Cody's eCommerce platform of choice
sites on, you know, with all the up cells and down cells and, uh, cross cells and, and so on and so forth?
Are you, is there a platform of choice here that you like? Yeah, I think there's two ways to do it. So I first started using WordPress, which I wouldn't use, cuz there's a lot
of extra bloat on WordPress, WordPress, um, page builders and it requires different service setups and things crash.
I probably have lost a hundred thousand dollars in profit by having to pay out affiliates who sense to my sent so many clicks to my page.
It crashed my server. And then they're, they're the mega affiliate who, if you don't, they don't make what they wanna make that day.
You are blacklisted. So you have to just write a check and cry. Um, so that's having me a handful of times on WordPress.
Um, I think the best way to go plain Z is HTML.
And the reason behind that is because it's just the source code of the internet. It's as basic as it comes. And, um, it is a pain cuz if you don't know how to use HTL or
build it, you dunno what to do. You can't edit it. You're screwed. So what I've actually done, um, and this is not a pitch is sharing what I've done.
I've built an entire team in the Philippines cuz hiring in the Philippines is amazing. We're up to now and I've actually turned my entire dev, um,
department into its own company. Mm-hmm and so we're just getting on the, on the, on the ground right now we've helped like six customers launch and we're doing that at an incredibly
low prices because in the Philippines, hourly wages are very inexpensive. And so we do that kind of thing.
So I would encourage people to, you know, reach out to me and I'll be glad to introduce you to that division. I'm not running it so I can introduce that person.
But HTML is the best way to do it. Pages don't crash pages, load fast.
Everything's built the way it's supposed to for mobile and desktop. There's no question about it. Um, it's as simple as it comes now, if.
You don't have the cash for, you're doing your bootstrapping everything on your own click funnels.
Mm-hmm , it's the absolute easiest thing to use. Does it have integration issues with these systems?
Yes. Do you have to test constantly? Make sure it's not breaking in some updates, screw things up. Yes.
Um, but that is the easiest way to build a page. You can go on up fiverr or Upwork and people can build that sucker
for a couple hundred bucks. You know, people who have figured out ClickFunnels all over the world. I have many, many people I coach that still use it.
I know people with a multimillion dollar companies I've used it. Um, so that is the most bare bone simple system to, to get going.
Yeah, it seems to be the industry standard. Doesn't it for that kind of thing. Um, but, but like the load, the load, rate's like three seconds on a
page two and a half seconds on HTML. It's like . Yeah. So, you know, as soon as you can, you wanna build HTML because it's like
taking a Ford Pinto to the racetrack. You, you want the F one race car, that's what you wanna be driving. And that's kind of what HT melt is.
yeah, no, that's fair comment. That's a fair comment. And I think as your business grows, you, you, you do do things.
Don't, you, you start off on a platform here. You prove your concept. Yes. It's working great. Now I feel confident to invest however much over here, getting
some in bespoke written and that's gonna be much quicker and much better and, and so on and so forth.
So I've, I've, I've seen people do that a lot actually. Um, do that an awful lot. So, Cody, uh, what's next for you, bud?
What's next for Cody?
What's the, what's the sort of the next stage in conquer in the world? Oh gosh. I have a handful of more offers coming out.
I have a handful of partnerships with people who are amazing at traffic or amazing at like. You know, different types of, uh, industries and niches who don't
wanna do the supplement brand. So I got those happening. Uh, the biggest thing I'm excited about besides the, the yo-yo
funnels, which is our, um, our funnel building company is just so fun. I, I love the, the concept of being to help people build pages.
Um, I actually do coaching. I started a program called supplement millionaire, and I teach people
how to launch and build a direct marketing affiliate based supplement
brand or health brand in that space. And, uh, you know, we have about members right now. Uh, we have people who have direct marketing funnels who already
existing with million dollar funnels. I have people with hundred thousand dollar funnels. I have people who are starting out and know nothing.
Mm-hmm . I have a handful of Amazon people and eCommerce people. Um, I got people from, uh, uh, being online, uh, doing, doing,
uh, like, you know, the QVC kind of stuff, those kinds of people. So I, I've got a huge, uh, plethora of people in the group, which
is exciting to be able to help people from different spaces. And we walk people through the concept, how to work with each individual, um,
type of person you need, you know, copywriter, design, webpage, builder, how to get insurance types of lawyers. You need the best people to work with to run your email list.
All those different people that I have. Gone through seven or eight people and have failed with these
partnerships and to find the right one, we've kind of lined it all up. So basically if you're ready to start a health or supplement business online,
it's just kind of an instant resource. And then we do, um, along with that weekly coaching, where we continue to
teach more about operations, affiliate management, um, copy and marketing and, and just answering questions.
So I've created an entire system to help people succeed. And I just, I had so many mistakes, probably a million dollars of profit that
I've lost over the, um, last four years. And I don't want people to have to do that. I want them to know exactly what they need to do to get going.
Uh, you know, it's gonna cost you between five and $to launch this brand, launch a new brand, depending on how much you actually, uh, want do the work
yourself mm-hmm . And I wanna show you everything you need to do to be able to succeed without having to, um, guess.
Yeah. Especially when you're investing that sort of money. Mm-hmm and that's the beauty, I guess, for people like yourself,
Cody, you've been around for a while. You've learned a lot. Um, and this is why I think the coaching and the online stuff is so helpful
because you can get, yes, you can go to YouTube and you can learn a lot of stuff, but fundamentally you get in under the wings of an expert that sort
of walked through the whole thing. Well, that's just, I'd like MasterCard says that's priceless.
, you know, it's one of those, isn't it? Where I think actually it, it, it just saves you so much pain. Um, and so, uh, listen, Cody, how do people find out more about the
Connect with Cody
mastermind, the coaching that you've got? How do they find out more about you connect with you if they want to do that? Definitely.
So the website for the program is supplementmillionaire.com. You can also look at supplementmillionaireblueprint.com
on there. I have a video it's about minutes long. That goes through what it is, the details and all the information about it. I got a few free, free E uh, downloads as well.
You can get the kind of Gantt chart and the checklist for launching your own offer. So if you wanna watch the video and download that and go for it - go for it.
If you do succeed without joining my coaching program, I want a testimonial it's only, the only thing I require um, and, uh, it's a lot of great content too.
It's it's a lot of great content. If, if you were willing enough, you could just watch this and go, like, it's,
it'll be a challenge, but you could. Um, so that's there, you can also go to codybramlett.com it's got information
there, there, um, otherwise, yeah, I just, I just love to help people, so I encourage people to jump on. You can email our, our support, if it's an awesome question, I'll respond to it.
I'm all about helping the industry do better, because if we all rise up the, if the tide rises up, we all rise with it, right?
Yeah. So I wanna make sure that we're all doing things better. It's not a scammy industry and we're using direct marketing principles to
make sales and help customers, not to trick people and lie, which is what a lot of people kind of think of that in the industry X as that.
Yeah. That's brilliant. Listen, Cody, I have really enjoyed our conversation, uh, today, so
thank you so much for joining me on the eCommerce podcast. We will, of course put all of the links, which Cody mentioned
in the show notes as well. Um, so if you are not taking notes right now, you are driving just, you
know, head on over to the website and we will give you all of that information, uh, right there on the page.
So you can, uh, connect with Cody. I'm sure he'd love to hear from you. Uh, and, uh, yeah, I definitely wanna see the testimonials that come out of it.
So, um, Cody, thank you so much for being with us, bro, it's been, uh, it's been a privilege.
Thank you so much. It's been a blast. So there you have it, another plus for the eCommerce podcast,
Wrap up with Matt
another fantastic conversation. What did you think of it amazingly? So huge. Thanks too, Cody for joining me today.
Uh, don't forget to check out, uh, today's show notes, uh, as well as our complete
back catalog online on our website at ecommercepodcast.net, you can of course,
subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcast from, uh, and make sure you do because you're not gonna miss want.
No, you're not gonna want to miss, let me rephrase that. You are not gonna want to miss, uh, any of the great conversations we've
got coming up over the next few weeks. Let me tell you it's all going on.
So, uh, do subscribe and in case no one has told you yet today, you, my friend are awesome.
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